In my search for the right input profile for the Panasonic S5M2, (RW2), I keep realizing that Camera standard is very good.
When I compare these two:
Camera standard or Custom: Panasonic DC-S5M2 Camera Standard.dcp from Adobe.
I just see that the ART internal Camera Standard is completely the same as Panasonic DC-S5M2 Camera Standard.dcp (from Adobe) if you turn OFF all the following:
Tone curve, (Base Table), Look table and Baseline exposure.
There are only minimal changes in the histogram, the image looks completely the same.
You would think that Camera standard is nothing special, only “standard”.
Why can ART deliver such good results with this profile? Does ART read the details of the profile from the raw-file?
I think the standard profiles are often just based on the Adobe matrix values so it might not be surprising if you disable the dcp components that they look similar and then you didn’t mention but have you left one of the tone curves on that ART applies or have you set that to linear… so you could start by making sure that was done and then look at camera standard and compare that to the adobe one all options off…as you say they are pretty similar so then you could look at the full dcp file with all elements active and the ART tone curve set to linear. Then you could go back to camera standard and put the automatch back on to compare the ART look to the dcp look… And when you do have the ART curve enabled then the mode you use ie film, standard, luminance, perceptual really can alter the look as well…
Yes, I use the Auto-Matched Tone Curve and this gives me an excellent starting point. Sometimes too much dynamic range, but that’s no problem to take some of it away again. Log tone mapping or tone equalizers in particular are excellent tools for this.
Ya my comments weren’t really about your workflow just what settings you had in place when you were comparing profiles if that was what you were commenting on…
Does anyone know whether this Camera Standard from ART is really a standard profile that is used in exactly the same way for every camera? I would be surprised, because the quality is very good and delivers good images.
Or whether this profile gets the necessary information from the respective RAW file and therefore delivers such good results?
My goal is not to reproduce the character of a camera as faithfully as possible, but I would like to have a neutral, natural and realistic reproduction of a photo as a basis for further processing.
If that is my goal, for what do I even need a camera-specific profile? Or are there still a few advantages that compensate for the weaknesses and peculiarities of a camera (which I don’t notice at the moment)?
typically, every camera needs its own input profile, there’s certainly not a “one size fits all”. What “Camera standard” means in ART (and in RawTherapee too) is that we use a “built-in” profile that is specific to the camera model. This profile is implemented as a simple 3x3 matrix, and is optimised for daylight (D65 illuminant). It’s usually good enough for most purposes, except maybe some extreme lighting situations (e.g. indoor leds or something like that). Also, the goal of such “standard” profile is exactly to provide a starting point that is as neutral as possible, instead of implementing a specific “look”. So, I’d say for your purposes it should be fine.
If you want something fancier, you can try the attached one PANASONIC DC-S5M2.dcp (63.8 KB)
Very easy to understand explanation!
Where did you get this PANASONIC DC-S5M2.dcp profile from?
And what does it mean that only Base table can be selected for this profile, everything else is grayed out?
The difference to the ART Camera standard is minimal in a normal shot, but the PANASONIC DC-S5M2.dcp has a little less of that yellow tint. This could become my favorite.
Hello Todd,
I use Linux, but via Wine I also have the Adobe DNG Converter - and from there I have some .dcp profiles suitable for the camera.
But I’m always amazed at how good ART Camera is by default.
Creating a profile myself - uff, that seems like a huge effort, at least for me. And I doubt whether it’s worth it, because ART does everything perfectly for me with its good profile.
The Panasonic S5M2 camera inherently takes somewhat red or red-blue cast pictures (and videos), which I’m not very happy about because I usually have to correct this when taking portraits.
Now I realize that ART Camera standard is actually the better profile for me, because it makes the colors a little more yellow than PANASONIC DC-S5M2.dcp. Sometimes, however, it makes the skin a little too yellow.
I think there’s no getting around the final color corrections. Then it probably doesn’t matter which profile you take, both are good.
If you watch the video you might see how easy it is…and you might find some utility… But that would be something you could evaluate. That standard profile as Alberto says and you discovered is really pretty much the default Adobe camera matrix…then for your preview you are just using what ever extra options you enable for ART ie maybe one of the automatched or standard tone curves…the alternative is the DCP and enabling its components. Those might change or enhance the look for better or worse than what you see with the ART curve… If you turn on all the Adobe stuff esp the tone curve and still leave on the ART curve you see that it often just goes to almost a linear result because it doen’t need to do much more in this case to craft the image as the adobe curve does the bulk of the initial tone curve work… but the bottom line with ART and RT is that you have access to both internal profiles, ie standard or camera matched and then you have custom which can include the adobe dcp files and lcp for lens corrections so basically all options are there to use for the users preferred look…
I generated it using the colour target shots of dpreview. It’s also supposed to be pretty neutral in terms of rendering but should be more robust than camera standard wrt weird illuminants
After a few attempts, I realize that
>PANASONIC DC-S5M2.dcp profile
is probably the best after all. The skin tones come out very nicely and no other profile is better. Maybe my taste sometimes likes less saturation better, but that’s a matter of taste. Finer details and adjustments will always be done individually anyway. Of all the profiles, this is the one that best captures the S5M2’s images.
It is now my default profile for this camera. My search is now over.
@agriggio, your work to create it was worth it. I sincerely hope, especially for all other users of this camera, that this profile will soon become a permanent feature of ART.
download the studio scene shots for your camera from dpreview, one for daylight and one for low light (raw format, lowest ISO).
open the images in ART, crop them to only include the color target shots, and export them using the “Save Reference Image” button under “Color → Color Management”. Call them tungsten.tif (for the low light one) and daylight.tif.
Thank you Alberto. I am running Windows but intend to install Linux (probably Ubuntu) on an old computer soon. I will let you know if I am succesful and share the .dcp files.
