The colours on Canon’s preview images depend on the “style” selected. These styles are available as icc profiles in DPP’s installation directory (Windows), with cryptic names, but correct descriptions.
Most of the time, my camera is set to standard style, the neutral style should be the most useful when looking at the camera’s RGB histogram. It is, of course, still far from RT’s neutral profile.
Switching styles in DPP (Mac/Win) is an obvious way for comparison. Which style was used for this screenshot (sorry, if I have missed this)?
@agriggio is right, though I would say the most likely cause for the discrepancy is that different ICC profiles are being used, using different colormatrices and created based on targets shot in daylight where the exact temperature of the light was not the same.
Don’t focus on her skin or on the contrast in the photo. All you’re interested in is the hue of the background which you’re probably trying to get neutral.
Don’t rely on your eyes, use numbers. Open both images in a color-aware editor (e.g. RawTherapee) and sample the colors of the same area of the background, the a* and b* values should match and have a difference of about zero.
@Ajohn wrote, “The canon software will probably have used an ICC profile for the camera. RT doesn’t by default.” You don’t know what camera was used, so you don’t know that.
@Ajohn wrote, “An alternative is to use an Adobe one or one from somewhere else.” That would not help.
@Aleph a good starting point if you want to match white balance values in both programs is to use the same ICC profile in both programs. If there is still a discrepancy then that indicates that it lies elsewhere. Having said that, I don’t know with certainty whether raw white levels would have an affect - I would guess they do, and both programs are likely to be using different raw white levels.
The most important point is that doing this is pointless. It is irrelevant if the temperature and tint values don’t match across programs as long as setting the WB based on a neutral patch does in fact lead that patch to become neutral (works fine in RT).
I do shoot Canon and have used their software. As far as I’m aware they effectively use an icc files on all of their cameras that will shoot raw.
The Adobe profiles do differ but I’ve not found that to be a problem. They did tend to bring in more highlight than Canon did but that was some time ago and may have changed due to the number of stops wars in jpg’s.
Photivo comes with a lot of camera profiles. That can be a good source at times if it has one specifically for the camera that has been used.
As you mention though the solution is to use the same profile in both applications.
The other problem can be that the manufacturer’s software may play with colouration. That in some ways put me right off shooting Nikon.
@Aleph RawTherapee ships an ICC profile for the Canon EOS 5D, it also ships a DCP profile for it. Look in the iccprofiles\input and dccprofiles folders. If DPP ships 37 profiles for your camera model alone, these profiles likely include some effects baked into them. Unless you meant 37 profiles in total, not just for your camera.
Regardless, this exercise seems like a waste of time. The input profile’s job is to give accurate colors. It does. A different reading of WB temp and tint is not a problem.
Yes I have found the RT icc profile for the 5D, I can see only a subtle diference: the dark blues are less dark. I can see it in the nails, and (in other photographies) in the sky.
I also tried all the 37 DPP Profiles! I only can see two effects:
1- Some of them look very very dark
2- All the CNZ*.icc files look the same. The blues are more dark, and the red, and skin colors are only a little bit more yellow
Yes maybe you are right.
Some times I have some trouble for get the right colors in RT. But probably is my camera and the shooting conditions. I started as nature photographer using DPP because DPP got the best colors for my camera, Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom are no the best for Nature photographie.
My question was my surprise about the diference 5000K-4650K
Now the question is clear, more o less…
I like RT and I use RT on PCLinuxOS almost exclusively in the last 3 years. Even for nature photographie
@Aleph to be clear, the input profiles in RawTherapee are designed to give accurate colors. This is not the same thing as aesthetically pleasing colors or colors with a certain “look”. “because DPP got the best colors for my camera”, this is likely a result of DPP using a tone curve + a color mapping which gives a certain “look”. You can manually do the same in RawTherapee, then save the settings as a default PP3 for raw files. For example when working with skin one generally wants to smooth-out red splotches and shift reddish colors closer to skin colors (e.g. using the Vibrance - Skin Colors tool https://i.imgur.com/Fk0BgAM.jpg ).
RawTherapee first checks for a DCP input profile when opening a raw. If none exists, it looks for an ICC profile. If that does not exist, it uses hard-coded values from dcraw. As RawTherapee ships both an ICC and DCP input profile for the Canon EOS 5D, it will use the DCP by default. You could select the ICC manually https://i.imgur.com/c3R6Luh.png though it looks almost identical to the DCP.
Do you have a color target like the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport? If so, if you shot it under daylight and tungsten light I could improve the DCP.
DPP’s available files seem to be Canon’s generic profiles; FA.icc is Faithful AdobeRGB, PS.icc is Portrait sRGB, and so on. If I remember correctly, in daktable they can be made usable via the “unbreak input profile” module. They can be used for some comparisons, but I also wouldn’t bother with them too much.
@Aleph A good way to learn about your raw file is to use exiftool or something similar. Other than that, @Morgan_Hardwood pretty much covered everything. A snippet of exiftool output:
WB RGGB Levels As Shot : 2180 1024 1024 1616
Color Temp As Shot : 5019
WB RGGB Levels Auto : 2180 1024 1024 1616
Color Temp Auto : 5019
WB RGGB Levels Measured : 2087 1022 1025 1717
Color Temp Measured : 4648
WB RGGB Levels Daylight : 2236 1024 1024 1577
Color Temp Daylight : 5200
WB RGGB Levels Shade : 2608 1024 1024 1339
Color Temp Shade : 7000
WB RGGB Levels Cloudy : 2427 1024 1024 1450
Color Temp Cloudy : 6000
WB RGGB Levels Tungsten : 1570 1024 1024 2399
Color Temp Tungsten : 3200
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent : 1949 1024 1024 2245
Color Temp Fluorescent : 3763
WB RGGB Levels Kelvin : 1141 1024 1024 3372
Color Temp Kelvin : 2400
WB RGGB Levels Flash : 2497 1024 1024 1438
Color Temp Flash : 6214
Average Black Level : 2048 2048 2048 2048
Raw Measured RGGB : 415520 180628 178529 249230
Per Channel Black Level : 2047 2047 2048 2048
Normal White Level : 15165
Specular White Level : 15677
Linearity Upper Margin : 10400
This is true, so they aren’t truly neutral or accurate, even though we have a picture profile named neutral.
exiftool is an excellent way to see the metadata of your camera or at least that which the camera decides to reveal. Different raw processors heed different portions of this info. It may also give us a hint on what is baked into the JPEG (or the RAW), if you know what you are looking for.
Regarding your question, you might be interested, for example, in the WB multipliers, the black / white points and the temperature presets of the camera. One thing that can be seen right away is that your camera’s auto WB wanted to be even warmer than your manual temp but sunlight is a bit less. Looks like the flash may have influenced the colors as well.
Another thing to note is the differences in k between camera presets. DPP would correspond to this but RT clearly has another interpretation. You could probably draw some graphs to compare if you really wanted to, but it might be hard to compare since DPP does more stuff to influence the default output than RT. Photography is just a hobby for me, so I might be wrong on a bunch of things, but hope this helped just a bit .