I have just noticed that the lighttable looks like this:
There are two widgets that look almost identical. I understand that they serve a different function (the one on top is for filtering, the one on the bottom is to assign ratings), but I find the UX very confusing.
Didn’t I notice before, because my bottom panel is generally hidden, or is the widget on the bottom a relatively new addition?
I never really noticed the bottom panel because I always use keystrokes to rate and mouse to select. But I don’t think it is recent.
I’m sure there are people who have some sort of rating process that is entirely different to mine, who would always us the bottom pane.
I don’t think it is confusing. If in any doubt, the tooltips would clear it up.
The top one is for filtering. You can edit it via collection filter module. The manual explains it.
Yes, I understand the difference, as I already stated in the OP.
I am raising a flag that it’s confusing for users, it violates the UX principle that “things that look similar should perform a similar action”, i.e., Nielsen’s #4 principle of UX design:
Users should not have to wonder whether different words, situations, or actions mean the same thing. Follow platform and industry conventions.
In this case, two almost identical widgets perform very different actions: filtering (which affects a view) and tagging (which actually changes the data).
I don’t have a concrete proposal for improvement, I wanted to attract attention to it in case someone else does.
there‘s no violation of UX principles: in the top the filters are done using exactly on the same icons you can tag the images in the bottom - and the first word in the top line gives a clear hint, what all these icons are used for 
There no benefit in created a different way to rate or color tag the images using different icons or -even worse - put it in a separate dialog to avoid these icons to be shown simultaneously
I am not convinced 
One that is already familiar with the UI most probably does not care, but for new users it matters.
There is a violation, and it is confusing. In fact, when I first noticed the first thing that I thought (I was working on some code changes) was “uh, did I by mistake duplicate the collection filter widget?”
Since I think that DT is a great piece pf software, I think it deserves the best possible UI, so if I see that there is margin for improvement I diligently report it.
So how should they be differentiated from one another?
For new users darktable has a quit helpful goodie: a manual
As I said above, I don’t have a concrete proposal. The purpose of this thread is to brainstorm.
Probably it’s also the fact that they are placed almost aligned above each other. Or the fact that they are near the controls for the lighttable layout which makes me think that they should affect presentation rather than data.
With all due respect, the role of the manual should be to tame technical complexity and explain how to get things done, not to help users make sense of questionable UI decisions.
Friends, I understand that resources are limited and function comes before form. But it should be ok to discuss about how the form can also be improved.
That sentence is completely ok, but not your reasoning, that the handling of color/stars filters and setting elements is a ‚questionable UI‘
If a user needs an explanation, how things works in darktable, then this ‚ how to get things done‘ is exactly what helps regarding filters and setters
Ehm, it is demonstrably questionable. In fact, I am questioning it right now 
Jokes aside, I said “questionable”, not “outrageous” or “obscene”. It is not terrible, it won’t make puppies cry, but there is certainly margin for improvement, because it is confusing (and it does violate good UI design patterns).
It is very clear that for you it cannot possibly be improved in any way, but maybe others have some idea that they would like to put forward, in which case I would like to hear it.
It’s also possible that no one will bother, because most people here are familiar with it and so it does not matter to them.
Either way, DT rocks.
As with most of the new widgets in the collection filters module, I much prefer what came before, and immediately replaced the “range rating” widget with the “rating” widget as soon as the new one was implemented, so I saw “range rating” in my UI for all of about 30 seconds:
I reply to myself to elaborate on the position aspect.
Even keeping the widgets as they are, moving the filter to the left panel (where the other collection filters are) and the ratings to the right (where other image operations are) could be an improvement (another UX principle: related functionalities should be grouped together).
While that would work in the lighttable, the purpose of the top/bottom bars is that the filter and assignment functions are still (currently) also available in the darkroom, where duplicating entire (left- and right-pane) lighttable modules wouldn’t necessarily be a good idea.
I find no confusion with these widgets. Changing it would cause me confusion.
So much criticism without a single suggestion on how to make it better. I find it hilarious treating a user configurable(yes you can edit this) top filter like it is hardcoded layout.
Folks. I know we are all grumpy af and we spent the time to learn dt and now all others must suffer the same path… But @Masterpiga is trying here. And he has tried multiple different ways to engage us and talk about improvements. This is his best most neutral attempt to ruffle as few feathers as possible.
Throw the kid a fuckin bone come on. We say “come and get involved, if you can’t code (which he apparently can, even better) then share your ideas for improvement! Let’s make things better together!”
We can’t say that and then collectively go all “old man yells at clouds” when someone actually does it.
I think there is something here. I don’t know what it is and I have removed a bunch of widgets that he is talking about myself. But he should be commended for his repeated efforts to try and talk about making things better.
This one could possible end up actionable!
Kudos @Masterpiga thank you for keeping on trying, even if we don’t agree all the time.
What if the word “set” was added in front of the bottom controls? @Masterpiga, would that be enough to resolve the confusion? I understand and agree with your UX point, but at the same time making a major change would unsettle those users who are used to and comfortable with the tools as they presently are.
I do remember the sense of confusion I felt when I first saw two separate banks of similar widgets. The manual quickly cleared up that confusion, though. I personally have no issue now, since I cull and rate in Geeqie before a photo even sees darktable.
I am guilty of sometimes attempting to rate or colour tag an image by clicking the filter buttons, so I understand the OPs perspective. The label and positioning is clear and I’m not a novice, its just a thoughtless brain response to the visual stimulus.
Not here to offer suggestions, just to let you know you’re not the only one.
