Saw this and thought it summed up my feelings as an end user concerning the development of Free Software:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/09/msg00453.html
I realize this can be a sensitive topic, please keep it clean!
Saw this and thought it summed up my feelings as an end user concerning the development of Free Software:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/09/msg00453.html
I realize this can be a sensitive topic, please keep it clean!
"But itās not a customer relationship. Itās much closer to the relationship between a gift giver and a gift recipient."
This one line sums up for me the problem with the FOSS view. Why most projects die and their developers move on to paying jobs.
Discuss
I donāt think its reasonable to say āmost projects dieāā¦ How do you get these numbers that give you āmostā? Is software supposed to have an infinite life time? It is an impossible statement to affirm.
What makes you think that developers who make an application in their free time arenāt also employed as a developer somewhere else? The two are not mutually exclusive.
He is somewhat right, but would he give a power drill to a three-years old? At some point you have to think about the consequences of your gift. For FOSS this may mean making sure users can trust the software with their personal data.
I think that if youāll ask 100 developers their opinion on the subject, youāll get 100 different answersā¦ not surprisingly, I personally do not agree with the āgiftā paradigm.
I have to admit that I have not read the entire thread, so I will limit my thoughts to the main point advocated in the message that you linked: open source software as a gift.
When I offer a gift, I want either to
When I decided to release my code as open source, I definitely did not have either of those goals in mind:
Instead, I think we should consider our users as a powerful resource that allows the software to progress and improve, and establish a collaborative relationship with them. The big advantage of Open Source projects is that at least part of the users feel concerned about the development process, and try to help with bug reports and, more importantly, with suggestions for improvements.
So, it is true that as developers we do not have any legal obligations, but why would one put a piece of software on github and care about having a proper issue tracker, if one does not care about interacting with users?
As a non-developer end user, I also found http://taskwarrior.org/docs/advice.html to be interesting.
I write Filmulator for my own personal use. If someone else finds it useful, then lucky them!
As a free software developer I have encountered people expressing expectations a few times. Unlike the author of that mail I was neither that eloquent not calm in my reactions. The view I expressed was the same though.
About reasons to give a gift, I am a firm believer in that there is no (with exceptions maybe) such thing as altruism. So even when I tell myself that I give a gift because I want to make someone else happy, there is also the āI want toā part in that. And making that happen is making ME happy, which is the real motivation to do basically anything. As least thatās how I see life. I have helped a lot of people in my life, but not because of them but because I wanted to do it.
TL;DR: I agree with the mail and donāt like people proclaiming obligations I would have.
Gah! I hate when you all kick off an interesting thread and Iām stuck on my mobile. The brain runs faster than two clumsy thumbs can keep up withā¦
āIf wishes were horses, beggars would rideā. Once in a while a miracle happens. Then I ride.
āNever look a gift horse in the mouth.ā
In Dutch we use the last saying frequently. (In English?)
Some people maybe forget that: miracles = hours, days, weeksā¦years of spare time. So, as FOSS user, I have wishes. I ask a lot. Alright then, ā¦maybe hidden in my brain, I sometimes have expectations. But I donāt believe you are telepathic, so thatās no problem. Developpers, thank you for your hard work and spare time.
This is a common saying in english as well (here in the US at least).
England too.
I have two perspectives on this.
On one hand open source hackery is a really nice hobby at least for me. I get a big kick out of problem solving, and I get to hang out with and learn from very smart people. As a hobby Iām rather happy not to get paid, and not to have any responsibilities. Iām happy that my little creations have been useful or enjoyable for a lot of people but itās not why I do that. From that perspective anyone demanding anything from me is crazy talk. Iām happy for suggestions and to work together with other people but the āYour software does not work.ā, ā Which software?ā, āThe gray oneā gets old pretty quickly.
But I do also have another perspective on this:
I do not want to use Software that I have no control over and which is not acting in my best interest.
I do not want to use Software mainly designed by clueless managers, lawyers and marketing people.
I do not want to spend money on software which is mainly spent on marketing and messing with the competition.
From that perspective Iād be very happy to actually pay for the free software I use, so that it can become even better.
From that perspective Iād be very happy to have developing free software be my job.
But I guess that itās though to convince people that to pay for free software is in their very best interest which does make me wonder whether the entire model of free software we have at the moment is really working that well.
And then there is the part where I do feel that I owe the community something. While I do have some formal training, a lot of what I have learned about building software is thanks to this community. A community that welcomed me as a dorky little kid, still fairly green & naive and allowed me to learn from the best. For that Iām still very very grateful and I definitely do want to give back to the community for this reasons.
Now to some extent I think all of these views are compatible: If you want free software & to be treated like a customer, thatās fine but make sure you are actually paying the person you are expecting to threat you like you do (thatās sounds so obvious it hurtsā¦).
A cheval donnĆ© on ne regarde pas les dentsā¦
I totally sympathize with this.
I also think that FOSS is our way of being artists (I do teeny postage stamps, when others here are doing frescoesā¦).
A caval donato non si guarda in boccaā¦
I tend to agree with the gift analogy. Mostly in the sense of understanding that thereās no particular expectation from the giver.
I am constantly in awe at the overall good nature and genuine desire to share something awesome with people that the free software community seems to foster. Even in light of some harsh negativity and self-entitlement that users can sometimes bring. This has been particularly noticeable to me helping users on the GIMP side of things. There are occasionally awesome folks bringing kind words and good attitudes but they are often overshadowed by the amazing amount of vitriol and what appears to be pure mean-ness* from others.
I for one am ridiculously grateful for the work and kindness of all of the developers, hackers, documenters, packagers, and fellow photographers.
* Read: assholes.
Except darktable. Theyāre stinky.
GIMP, for whatever reason, seems to attract lots of criticism, lots of it way too harsh. Iām not sure why that is. Iāve tried to inquire why on places like reddit, but Iāve yet to really hear a good answer.
I should follow my comment up with a fair bit of praise for the folks that actively try to help and engage the GIMP community. prokoudine, schumaml, @Ofnuts and many others (between gimpchat, gimpforums, reddit, and the mailing list) are all just amazingly patient and kind people who care deeply about the project and trying to help.
We love you, too.