Just sayin....mostly about wildlife photography

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Cruising Instagram this morning I’m struck by how many remarkably dedicated wildlife photographers there are, many of whom seem to regard themselves as professionals who adorn their images with fancy watermarks, who seem to have no photo editing skills at all.

To get the shots they’re posting they are clearly working hard–spending hours and hours out there in bush, hiking to secret spots at dawn, setting up blinds and shooting interesting images which they post here and there as color-bland washed out images begging for elementary image editing skills.

…just sayin. They are already very good but they could be so much better. If only they knew.

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The larger and more fancy the watermark, the worse the person is at post processing :wink:

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Oh, I think I have to remove all my watermarks quickly!

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fwiw I don’t mean to be snotty. I am not a professional photographer. I’m a B+ maybe A- amateur. I stake my ego on boat building and on designing and writing software.

But I am, as an amateur, better at photo editing than so many wildlife photographers who are getting wonderful images…but don’t seem to know what to do with them. It’s just an interesting and ironic observation.

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can you share some links? I don’t seem to get those badly edited photos on my feed :open_mouth:

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No I will not post links. I’m not going to publicly chastise any strangers. I often peruse various Audubon groups on Facebook and Instagram.

Those groups are predominantly comprised of photographers who see themselves as (like me) amateurs. I was struck this morning by the number of well composed images with fancy watermarks. And poor editing. There is so much really good free software available.

Perhaps open source needs better advertising.

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No I will not post links; I don’t want to publicly chastise strangers. I often peruse various Audubon groups on Facebook and Instagram. Facebook Birders is one of the best. Top level highly professional work–from around the world–is routinely displayed there–much of it far better than the best of my own.

Many such groups are predominantly comprised of photographers who see themselves as (like me) amateurs. I was struck this morning by the number of well composed images with fancy watermarks and poor editing. There is one well-known wildlife photographer on Instagram, who routinely gets a thousand or more likes for each new post–whose compositions are outstanding. And whose image editing is poor at best.

There is so much really good free software available. Perhaps open source needs better advertising.

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I mean… Instagram is full of sloppy editing, its like the whole reason the app exists. One shouldn’t need to look too far to find it.

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I understand you. Although I feel completely the opposite about that.
In my opinion, it’s not chastising. They’ve published the photos publicly on a social network meant for sharing liking and commenting photos. As soon as you publish something it’s free for public scrutiny anywhere on the web, engagement, commenting etc. In my opinion it’s perfectly fine to throw some links into the discussion. This is more of an academic setting than a hate forum so it’s fine imo. Until I see it I can only imagine it and that’s a poor way to judge and have an opinion on someone’s work :man_shrugging:

Now about the initial topic. Yes I agree. There are many groups on Facebook with many amateurs in them sharing everything from photos of their unmaintained gardens over cat pics to the most amazing photos on the most amazing locations.

But many of them have a fancy watermark. Imo if the image they shot cannot be used commercially and they put a watermark then they are just one of those people who fall into that category of people who don’t know how little they know so they think they know everything and that their iPhone photo is the best since the invention of the camera. And that’s fine. If they keep pursuing photography they’ll get much better at it and their ego will become much lesser.

On the other hand I’ve deleted my “photography” instagram accounts because some firm took my (watermarked) images and started selling magnets, post cards, lighters etc. Imagine my surprise seeing my shots on those products at my local post office.

I find watermarks or better said signatures in the lower left/right corner of the image to be a great way to establish your name. I’m still not 100% sure if this is good or not but I tend to add a signature on the photos that I print. I was debating with myself should I put a signature digitally on the front and print it like that or just sign it with a marker on the back of the image. So far I’ve put it digitally in the lower right corner and printed it. Just my first name and last name. Nothing special.

Then again to circle back to the amateurs. I have a personal story. My brother (28) found himself with some excess time and watching me do my work he thought it would be a good idea for him to become a YouTuber in his spare time and make big money :sob:
Now his thinking was that he only needed a cheep but fancy camera but he really wanted a fancy intro to his videos. His thinking was if I only made him the coolest intro ever then the entire video would be cool. And that’s the same with watermarks, people think if they put a watermark on their images then they’ll look pro, then they convince themselves that the image is good when they get 10 likes from their family and they are afraid someone will steal it and use it to make money.

Now back to my brother. I told him it’s hard to make YouTube content and that he needs 24h of footage to make just one 5min video. He was not convinced. He thought he’d go around those places that I use as motives for my photos and just have fun, dive, swim at the beach and make a cool lifestyle video.

I gave up on reasoning with him and became a supportive brother. My thinking was, let him buy a camera, let him learn on this mistake and then I could use it anyway :smiling_imp: :rofl: So the GoPro 9 finally came, he was shooting a few days and figured out he basically shot nothing. And thankfully he was smart enough to say that some shots look cool (slow motion) but that it’s a too hard of a work and he knows nothing about photo/video and has shot nothing even tho he was at my best locations.

And now this would be fine if he was some joe schmoe xD But he is a highly educated navy 1st officer working all over the world :rofl: So I can totally understand those Facebook people with watermarks.

But the moral of the story is, I was a supportive brother, didn’t even produce the intro, and now I have a GoPro 9 (technically still his but I use it and it gives him hope when he sees cool shots done with that gear :stuck_out_tongue: ). So just support those photographers, we’ll be selling our used gear at the highest prices and buying theirs at the lowest (that’s mean, I know) :rofl:

edit: I’m reading this again and realizing that I melted a lot of unrelated stuff into this post. I guess I was absent on this forum for a while so this is my hi everybody :stuck_out_tongue:

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This is one of those things where those in glass houses shouldn’t cast stones I think. I can guarantee someone has looked at most people’s photos in this thread and thought “what a bloody moron, they’d do better shoving the camera up their butt and jumping in front of a train” at one point or the other. I’m never comfortable being overly critical of other people’s work who haven’t directly requested it because well I’ve been on the other side of that coin and man it sucks. Especially when the other party isn’t interested in your improvement and are just looking for someone to take a dump on.

I know I’m a shitographer and the world would be a better place if I rm -rf * my media share on my NAS but whatever.

TL;DR: I’m not concerned with other people’s skill or what they deem is good or what they think of my work. As long as I’m better than I was yesterday is all that counts.

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Likely a good call not to identify someone but also at the same time this discussion is a bit empty without any examples like some others posed at times on this forum esp ones with such a possible subjective bias. Without an example or 2 you might be right (as judged by a majority on this forum) or you might be blowing smoke out your %#$ based on your bias of what a “good” wildlife edit is.

Even with examples there would be tremendous latitude for debate.

So I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you but this is about photographs and when we have these topics IMO if there are not examples then what is there to discuss…

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I agree. Art and criticism have always gone hand and hand, and criticism is one of the great ways to learn, so I don’t see the issue with posting examples. Without them there is not much to talk about, other than, yeah Instagram doesn’t always feature amazing work, or yeah, some pro photographers can produce mediocre results with poor post processing (which I’ve come to realise is why I initially disliked digital photography - I couldn’t find any with great processing, so I just assumed the medium sucked. Now I know what is capable with good post processing, I no longer take sides in the film v digital debate. It becomes about the skill, not the medium - and each medium has its pros and cons). If I was sitting around a table with friends we would have no issue being critical so I don’t see why a forum should be different, except that there is some chance the photographer happens upon the forum, and in the age where all participants get a ribbon, we wouldn’t want to upset anybody. But yeah, if the objective is just to find someone to take a dump on, I’m not down with that.

Without discussing specific examples, the most interesting point here to me is why so many put a lot of time and effort into the photograph, but not the processing. Are we still hungover from the film days when the lab did that for you? Are they happy with the results? Do they not understand how results could be better? Do they understand, but not have the time to learn, practice or experiment? Do they understand, but have no need, because their work already sells? Any or all of the above?

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Personally I’ve experienced a lot of disagreement/pushback on this forum (mostly about features, software UI etc). Some people “attacked” my skills too and I was pushing back hard and defending my position as I always do if I’m exploring an idea or I think I’m right.

But you know what. In most cases those people were right and I was wrong. I think I’ve grown so much not only as a photographer but as a person too as a result of that criticism that people gave me. I’d have it no other way. Some even gave me pointers about written communication in the DMs. People on this forum care very much about other participants so I just love what Pat, Mica and others have created here. It’s an open space for constructive ideas and often very harsh but well meaning criticism. All in an attempt to improve everything from software to skills to many other things. I’d feel free to share anything here (as long as I don’t put any copyright at risk). But I understand the opposite point of view.

Criticism should be viewed positively imo because people are taking time out of their day to look at your work, think about it very hard and then critique it. In my view that’s an honour because your work is not being dismissed outright but actually talked about. That means you must be doing something right but better yet that means that you can improve. It’s a gift to, when you think you’ve reached the top, to find out that you can be even better. And in this case it’s with post processing which means you don’t even have to go back out there and reshoot the image. And here we share and get knowledge for free. Amazing.

So I’d agree with the original premise bearing in mind I might have imagined completely different images that you are referring to.

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Most of my photography is wildlife and for me, half the enjoyment is getting outside to enjoy nature and hopefully finding something new or with a different perspective that I can share on social media. Facebook sucks in the way it butchers your photos, but people are always remarking on the latest bird that I’ve posted or some large delicate moth that’s only seen two weeks out of the year.

My editing skills have gotten better and I know I have a lot of room for improvement, but I have fun and people seem to enjoy my photos, so my amateurish time and effort is worth it to me.

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I don’t really enjoy shooting anymore xD Most of the images I shoot are utter garbage because I do a lot of drone shots and it’s hard to see what you’re shooting under the bright sunlight. I also had a phase when I did lightning srikes long exposures and storms. You just frame the shot and hope for the best. In 500 shots there’s maybe 1 worth exploring in post.

There is also the risk of aircraft colision, bird colision, tree and building colision, battery failing, drone sensors going crazy etc. It becomes very stressful over time. I’ve never had any major incidents but I’ve had some close calls.

What I enjoy the most is discovering the great shots that I managed to do when I sit down at the computer after the shoot. Safe and sound at my home without all the adrenaline. I also enjoy post processing but I hate the whole screen calibration issue and eyes tricking you.

I also shoot real estate, holiday accommodation and such stuff and that I just hate. I do it and I’m perfect at it, but it’s eating me alive. It’s the same boring thing over and over. And dealing with people who hire you and then mock your equipment because their phone has 100mpx and my 5Dmk4 has 30mpx… Moving furniture, cleaning, retouching moldy walls, greening brown and unmaintained lawns…

I’d love to shoot wildlife but the market is very much saturated with those images.

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