We have a problem - what is it about Ansel and AP? (Edit - concern fully resolved via respectful dialogue)

Software
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The hard part about audio is that real time does not wait for anybody, and missing the frame rate even once is immediately audible. Also that audio can not be viewed, or stopped. The only truth is in listening with human ears in real time. All visualizations are necessarily flawed and incomplete, and by the same token, most algorithms are surprisingly abstract.

While image data is harder to calculate with, it is so much easier to interpret, as the obvious visualization is the truth, and can be studied in infinite detail if desired. From what I’ve seen so far, image algorithms are typically rather simpler than audio algorithms.

Sorry for the off topic, I am currently migrating from fifteen years of audio processing into image processing, and couldn’t resist :grin:.

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It looks like he is now attempting to simplify filmic rather than make it more complex…

I do think all the norms were confusing and often lead to assertions about the impact of using “filmic” on the image. Often two different norms would look very different yet people often just lumped it all together when evaluating filmic or an issue related to filmic without stating what norm was used… perhaps many never used them and like some other things in filmic the defaults changed which definitely changed the overall starting look.

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Great. We can cherry pick. :slight_smile:

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That’s kind of why I mentioned in another thread that something that would work really well is to separate the color preservation components from the “curve” components. But doing this would require some significant changes to the pipeline paradigm - specifically allowing one module to effectively “wrap” another module.

Of course, if someone DID figure out how to make modules that “wrapped” around each other in the pipeline (e.g. had components that were both before and after another one), other things would be much more feasible, like a proper synthetic exposure fusion implementation. It would also be REALLY difficult to make this system backwards-compatible. :frowning:

Edit: Looked at AP’s v7 commit. Basically allows the user to choose a range between two frequently-undesirable approaches (max-norm and pure per-channel, with the latter suffering from hue twisting and the former suffering from luminance changing with hue), vs. the “perchannel with hue-twist correction” implemented in sigmoid.

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Sure. I did not want to say that audio is simple, I was solely referring to the possibly simpler plugin architecture in audio which led to standards such as lv2 which do not have a direct equivalent in image processing, at least not in the common raw processors.

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I’m 74. I spent 23 years in construction, with a few years off during recessions rough necking on the oil rigs. I got a CS degree at 45 and wrote software for 20 years before retiring (tcp/ip daemon stuff for the gambling industry, 3D rendering on SGI machines, backend database stuff with Oracle, Mysql and even the Exist XML database). Digitial photography and boat building are my hobbies. Photo editing software is a life requirement.

I worked with a lot of people who pissed me off–over the years. Getting the job done was what mattered. I’ve been working with Ansel. I like it.

Linus pisses a lot of people off.
So far I’m liking Ansel a lot.

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47

Yes, keywords here are “work” and “job”-- we will all likely put up with more when were are getting paid.

Would you enjoy it if someone just showed up outside your boat building place to tell you how bad you are at it? Call you an amateur? Tell you how much you suck and tell you that you should quit? How about if you asked them to stop but they just kept showing up?

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Yeah that was a bit disconcerting when I discovered it. i.e seemed like Filmic did some intelligent thinking of its own to decide on the default values for each image. Weird.

One feature of “free” software is - cos we are not compulsorily paying, we can’t make much of a complaint when it’s a labour of love. So we put up with some things.

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@OK1 as an aside it’s easier to follow the conversation if you quote the person you’re replying to, or part of what they posted, because if you just hit reply to something from four or five posts ago, it’s really hard to tell what’s going on.

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I think filmic only ever made a guess at rel white and black on the first load after that it was on the user. SInce you often needed to adjust at l more time in an edit it wasn’t such a big deal and nothing intelligent happened otherwise to the image…

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IIRC the only clever thing filmic does with regard to the white and black points is try to adjust for the in-camera exposure compensation (same as the exposure module does).

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I get it I get it. I’m using his software. In men’s working class culture aggressive dominating acrimonious posturing is part of life. I found the best way to handle assholes is to calmly grin. Remain strong and unaffected.

Reacting to bad behavior empowers it. Maintaining an even keel demonstrates your superior place in the testosterone pecking order.

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Well here we call it “being an asshole” and it is looked down on.

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54

Yeah if its work, I have put up with many obnoxious people, cos in that scenario, I have so many customers within and without the business, and the customer is always right. Eaten lots of humble pie.

But if it’s a voluntary or friendship situation, my tolerance for poor conduct is much less, because I can afford to disengage from a bullying or inappropriate relationship, with less consequential impacts.

With a job, there is so much more to think of. Bills to be paid.

Come to think of it - the bible speaks of being not equally yoked - i.e don’t run with people who are NOT on the same page with you, and this I think is where the challenge occurred with AP. For him this became a job, and a crusade, so his reasons for participating became so much more intense.

I’ve been in a recent scenario where I was putting in long days and long nights on a voluntary role, getting a bit frustrated by the lack of involvement of others, and their mediocre contributions. The cure for me was stepping back and recognising that each collaboration has by implication the limitations imposed by others which we have to accept. Some things I could have achieved in a week or two, have to wait for several months, cos I have to work through objections, resistance, and limitations in competencies, and it takes a while to get to know the other collaborators well.

The solution in this case, which was a voluntary audio and music role in church was to not stress over it, and channel more of my passion to projects outside of church which I could do predominantly almost on my own, not being limited by the weakest link. Still passionate about working with others, but recognising that in a group scenario, we can only put in a little bit of ourselves, but we have to leave so much room for others, cos its not about us.

I’m holding out hope that AP will be back. And the DT team can be gracious to let bygones be bygones.

Lots of lessons to learn from what happened here. If it’s very previous to you. you may need to go it alone, on that aspect of your aspirations, to give you ample space to put all your energies behind it. This is most likely AP’s 1st ever collab with anyone on open source. Hopefully it won’t be his last.

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There is no excuse in work or any aspect of life to be an arsehole. Bad behaviour needs to be called out and not tolerated. That may be a dictator of a politican who invades another country or a dictator in a FOSS project. In my personal work life I have seen that behaviour break so many good workers, myself included, and the perpretators get not only protected but promoted. I commend all the developers of DT who commit their time freely for the benefit of users like me and there is no excuse for the tone in which they were abused and belittled. I was shocked to read the github post where this occurred and I am sure there were many more instances. Let the dictator work on his own project by himself where he has no one to abuse except maybe the users who give feedback. DT development is a team of great people who do not deserve abuse.

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Thanks for sharing. I’ll file this advice away somewhere within easy reach.

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Quite aside from the impact on one’s fellow human beings, this kind of behavior can come back to haunt the individual far into the future. What if a person applies for a job and the potential employer decides to Google just to see if there’s any further indications of personality, behaviors, etc., as part of the “getting to know” process? Moving a team forward (whether FOSS, paid job, whatever) is all about what the team can do. Uncooperative, dismissive and anti-social behaviors are toxic to a team.

This can have a negative impact long after (theoretically, and even if) a person changes their behaviors. I was a part of an employee search when we ended consideration of an individual because, despite their known technical qualities, they weren’t a team player. In that case it wasn’t really acrimonious – that individual actually enjoyed a good argument and usually ended up doing things their way. From their POV it wasn’t a negative thing, but it wasn’t team-friendly and they missed consideration for the job because of it.

To paraphrase Marc Antony, “The online behaviors that men do lives forever after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.”

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So let it be with Ceasar :wink:

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That’s why some of us rarely use our real names on the web. So that our private lives can be private, and our employers have no business snooping into what should be our private lives.

Prior to the web, any checks were about the relevant things - qualifications, previous work experience, or criminal records. All this searching internet for irrelevant information about a prospective employee is just a bad habit of employers.