I have recognized that when using the Color Calibration module you are supposed to use it to adjust While Balance and avoid also using the White Balance module. However, when I apply a sidecar file that was properly created, with no error indication, to a different image file the error, which says “white balance applied twice”, does appear.
I think the idea of reusing sidecar files is a much desired feature of Darktable. Is there anything that can be done to remove what I’d suggest is a false error message?
Without seeing an example, I would suggest either:
Ignore the error if you are pleased with the result. It’s just a warning, and not necessarily an error to worry about; or:
In WB, set the module to the default setting, which I think is “as shot to reference.” If you wish to change the white balance from here use Color Calibration.
Its generally suggested to leave wb out of history stack copies…it will be there in a sidecar…you can just ignore the msg if you like the look or reset the wb to default and adjust the CC if needed…
Personally I don’t reuse side car files on another image. I have never even thought of doing that. I do use is ctrl+shift+C to select modules to be copied. Here is an example. Some modules such as retouch and crop were not copied because they were specific for the single image. You will also notice that I don’t copy a lot of the modules early in the pipeline including white balance which is the source of your error message. I only copy the minimum number of modules needed to apply the same editing strategy to next image taken under similar conditions. Some of the early settings such as raw black/white point can be very image specific and should not be copied from another image. This is especially true I believe if the ISO is changed.
I had a group of raw files that were shot in the same place and time of very similar scenes. When I got done developing one of them I had the idea that this was the situation where the “load sidecar car” feature found in the “history stack” section of the right side panel might apply. Therefore, from the lighttable view I selected an as yet undeveloped (i.e., never opened in the darktroom view) image file and then selected the “load sidecar files” button in the “history stack” section found on the right side panel. Then the sidecar file from the developed image file was selected and it gets applied to the selected image file.
The resulting images were every bit as good as the original. In this case I had no intention of making changes which kind of means ignoring the warning message makes some sense. However, I’m not so confident if I wanted to, as expected, make some tweaks to some modules.
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I tried that but it looks like you have to be in the darkroom view which I think means that the applicable presets have been applied. Then when performing the ctl+shift+C it looks like you get the same list of modules that normally get applied. There must be something I’m failing to understand but it does not appear that this is a way to duplicate the previous edits on a different image file.
I don’t know for sure, because I have no prior experience doing this, but I would expect that even if “load sidecar file” was performed on an image file that had some existing edits applied those would be completely replaced with the content of the alternate sidecar file.
To achieve your objective I copy part of the history stack from an image (all modules that are not auto-applied) and paste onto the other images. This approach is used by others here in the forum.
In the Lighttable, first select the edited photo. Then in the right panel look for history stack. Select “selective copy,” and copy modules you edited yourself, not the default modules. Then in the lighttable select your target images and (in the right panel) do a selective paste from the copied history.
history stack
Manipulate the history stack of one or more selected images.
module controls
selective copy…
Copy parts of the history stack from the selected image. A dialog will appear, from which you will be able to select which history stack items you want to copy. For any module, you may also choose to “reset” that module’s parameters – this will cause the module to be copied but with all controls set to their initial (default) state (as if you had clicked the module reset button).
If more than one image is selected, the history stack is taken from the image that was selected first. Double-click on a history item to copy that item only and immediately close the dialog.
Indeed. We manipulate and copy history, rather than xmp files from another image. As Terry pointed out, this can be done selectively, and it is better to leave out the initial default processing.
There is a reset box for each item.This takes care of modules we want to use in the new image but to take their values from that image, not the paste. eg lens correction, denoise.
It seems that you are applying the xmp in append mode. Appends adds vs overwrite that replaces. Regardless, your method of grabbing an xmp to apply to others is more convoluted than just using the selective copy / paste process. Process one image how you like it in the darkroom, they go to lighttable, select it, copy, select all the ones you want the similar edit and paste.
Thank you for this explanation I why I should sometimes tick the reset box. In retrospect it may be obvious but I struggled to understand when I should tick this box.
So… Let’s ask the question, why ever use “load sidecar file?” There has to be a reason for that button.
Here’s one: It is very useful when there are different edits/interpretations of the same image. There are probably many, but there is only one that I have, so far.
It is to be able to use a different interpretation/edit for an image. And it can be done without overwriting the existing edit. In the darkroom, make a duplicate of the image. Select that duplicate and load the sidecar file.
If taking part in a Playraw thread on this forum, one could have several such duplicates each with a different xmp downloaded from the thread.
OK, I gave it a try and as far as I can see it looks like it produced the same result with respect to visual comparison of the 2 preview images. Note: I did make a copy of the same raw file that was originally edited and added that to the subject collection using a different name. So the visual comparison was of the same image.
Prior to this I was unaware of this feature of Darktable and I can definitely see how this could be useful. However, in this case where the idea was to completely duplicate the prior result it is quite a bit more work. Especially when doing as I did and applying the original edits to several other raw files.
While I do understand that this is amounts to adding (i.e., append) these copied edits to preexisting ones, my idea was that if the subject image had never been opened in the Darkroom then there are no preexisting edits. When I did this in Lighttable the thumbnail was updated which suggests that maybe Darkroom was invoked even though I never did it. My expectation was, and I’m still not seeing what’s wrong with it, that when you load a sidecar file that is what you really want. In that, no need to apply defaults prior to loading it. If the sidecar is missing required defaults then that would reasonably constitute the need for an error message. Of course as previously pointed out this case was a warning not an error but it is possible that subsequent edits would be desired and there should be a way to turn off the warning.
I’m afraid I can’t answer your sidecar question. I would worry about applying incorrect settings to arbitrary photos (e.g. focal length in lens correction). But I honestly don’t know if that is an issue.
I personally do not mind copying and pasting history selectively. I still find, though, that images sometimes need a bit of editing after the paste (masking, exposure, etc.).
Actually, it wasn’t originally edited. Because darktable never changes your raw file.
Then just ctrl-c and ctrl-v. Done. No work.
Darktable loves to be flexible: it is not necessary to use all the flexibility.
Selective copy and paste is really useful when you know there are certain things you want in every image in a group, but not everything.
If your image is truly as yet untouched, what you see in the lighttable is the embeded jpg. As soon as dt makes a change, that is what you will see in the thumbnails. ctrl-v? You just applied a bunch of edits: you will see the result.
In the darkroom, if you ctrl-v, look at the result, and think, “Whoa. that was a mistake!” you can ctrl-z and undo it.
I did not expect to apply edits done on one image to another without needing to make some adjustments. I still think that is what should be expected. I was very surprised to find the results, in this case, to be so good that I thought messing with it could only do harm. I had no idea what to change in this case.
Please recognize that all the raw files involved in this situation were from the same camera with the same settings and were shot at just about the same place. The only difference was the scene (i.e, direction the camera was pointing when shot).
Of course; yours is the main use case for copying one image’s editing history and applying to others.
This is a major time-saver for me, but it also tends to keep edits of a group of similar photos to be consistent. Over time, you will see where this works and where you need to do something different.
Your method seems to work for you and I don’t see a problem if it is all the same shoot. So stick with it, but be careful of changes between different shoots.
If the wb is not set to as shot then you will see that error so when you apply a full sidecar with a different wb even if they are very close you will see that error. When and if a recent PR related to wb is accepted and merged you might not have the same issue… for now you just have to be aware of the wb issue when doing this or do selective copies from an image that is edited as you like …
