I like the last proposal, but indeed it means you should apply 3 modules to get the result.
However that could open some creative concepts where one would be able to apply or create specific modules that applies in between those steps (would that make sense is another question).
To achieve both I could imagine an agx module where you could activate each part individually (like a sub-pipeline), and use it either with the 3 steps activated, or use multiple instance of the module with individually applied steps.
I don’t know if this is meaningful at all, or if I’m just misreading your comments. I should definitely look at the code one day.
The mapping curve is 0…1 → 0…1, so needs the log step or some other compressor. The same is true for the look, at least on the input side (with too high slope or saturation, you can break out of 0…1 on the output side).
I fully agree with you. If folks want a simple one click module, they already have it. They just need to click the camera shutter button and use the SOOC jpg.
As a feature tie breaker at least, don’t end up with a tool that seems to please the most people but that you don’t really enjoy using 
… Also I think until it gets released into the wild for use by those that have not followed the discussion it might be hard to assume what all the potential stumbling blocks, likes, dislikes are. For sure having a curve that visually looks the same but gives a different look as a result is not likely to be cured by providing scaling as people will treat it visually as they would a simple tone curve… at least I feel like they will
I was charmed by the simplicity and results I got even with the first couple of versions… I would leave a little room in the waveform and finish with the rgb color balance module to adjust further contrast and the white and black values. I recall Boris commenting that often he could just use the punchy preset and adjust exposure…
I guess you can still do this but with all the other additional elements those seeing the module for the first time will have more places to break things and get overwhelmed… I am not advocating to remove or restrict anything but more so to make sure that things added are truly value added and not just as likely to confuse someone or make things overly complicated. You can hide those sections but if 2 or 3 key sliders are in with that group of sliders then its game on… And yes you can quick access and map keys etc so there are always ways around that…
Maybe effective tooltips will be helpful… I think it will be interesting to see when the module gets wider exposure what feedback you get …maybe that is the time to make larger descisions about the direction that you choose from all of the potential options that you have outlined…
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That depends on where you put the checkbox/toggle.
The histogram display has a few checkboxes in the “graph space”. Filmic has a few to the right of the graph (which take away a bit of horizontal space from the graph). So there are a few possibilities.
For the rest, it’s still marked as “proof of concept”. So GUI layout details are perhaps a bit premature?
Also, the number of controls really needed may still be open to change…
Cheeky! But I want to stress that I’m just testing AgX right now to provide feedback as a user, so I’m not using it like I would in my normal workflow. I’m trying to understand it, stretch it, break it, everything that might help you in your project (hopefully not make it more difficult or less enjoyable for you!)
So, yes, I’m looking at the graph a lot right now, but in its final version, I will just look at the shape of the graph curve from time to time. But I certainly won’t obsess over the numbers or gridlines.
You can also set that as a module preference with the set_preferences routine. It’s for example used in lib/metadata_view.c.
You may even add a “show graph” preference too.
That won’t take any vertical space, remove the need to put the graph under a section (which take some vertical space too) and will please everyone…
The drawback is that if it’s set hidden as default, it will be difficult to find for users.
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Hey there, have anyone “stress tested” Agx vs Sigmoid in difficult lighting conditions ?
I’ve playing and comparing with both modules for three days now, and I found that when it comes to handling clipped values or out of gamut colors name it what you want… Sigmoid shines the most. I think we need to reconsider our priorities regarding updates and improvements instead of worrying about graphs and what not. I will provide some examples so you can look closely to what I’m reffering to and a link to the exr files I used for comparision for you to test it yourself.
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different situations and different expectations might need different tools …
If you can get the intended result better with sigmoid, then use sigmoid. There’s a reason why darktable provides 3 tonemappers - and a fourth one when AgX has entered the stage …
Yes, please provide examples (with a permissive CC licence).
And please explain what ‘clipped values’ means - it is probably something very different from ‘out of gamut colors’.
These are with Agx, I had to reduce the saturation extensively but what’s bothering me is that even though they desaturated than the sigmoid versions when I toggle the clipping indicator it says otherwise, that’s what is intresting to me. Maybe @flannelhead could clarify because this is confusing to me !
Here is the link of the testing imagery so you can test for yourselves.
GitHub - sobotka/Testing_Imagery: Colourimetric Test Imagery
Yes, see:
As for an explanation: when you tell sigmoid to use sRGB primaries, it converts incoming data from pipeline colours to the sRGB gamut. Therefore, it never produces colours that are outside sRGB. I’ve talked to Sakari about this. It’s coming.
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Can you confirm how you have that set, ie what profile and what version of clipping…
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That would be amazing…
I would provide some examples for exposure sweeps, in this regard Agx is superior. The image just doesn’t break. Amazing module.
Saturation ofcourse.
NP just checking as the indicator uses your setting for histogram profile and then of course there are those settings…also you were talking clipping and gamut so I wasn’t 100% sure it was all about color …clearly it is what you were focussing on…
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I think when (matrix control) would be added, it would be game-over to be honest. I’m so exited for it !
Not so fast. There is no ‘one tone mapper to rule them all’.
@jedsmith, who developed the sigmoidal curve used in AgX, is not quite happy with it as a tone mapper, that’s why he went on to develop other methods, like OpenDRT, which is now available for ART. An interesting trick is that it does not need a log, so computation is easier, and, as I understand it, one does not need to handle some gamut problems until the very end (colours can have negative RGB components if they are outside the gamut, and you cannot take the log of a negative value, for example). Read more on his OpenDRT Wiki and also on his work on gamut compression.
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