Color Management, Windows; hardware-LUT or not?

The color space, styles, etc. in the camera apply to JPGs, not raw files, so itā€™s not a factor. I want the largest color space I can get when processing, so ProPhoto is my raw working space. I also export to TIFF as ProPhoto since I do resizing, exports and final edits in a bitmap editor (where ProPhoto is also my default). I donā€™t go down to sRGB until the final web JPG export.

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Oh, yes, you are totally right.

The colors I get from the sensor donā€™t need to be calibrated at the end as itā€™s all just about finishing on my screen - itā€™s just the photos I take with my ideas about the colour they should have.

I use the Spyder software and it seems to work fine. It should load the profile it created automatically I think, then at least in darktable, which I use, one also selects the profile to use as display profile.
I hope Iā€™m right on this!
To check if your colors are really too warm Iā€™d suggest taking a photo of something neutral, then doing auto white balance on it in RT then consider if it looks neutral or not, preferably after leaving the PC then returning.

By the wayā€¦ Where to set ProPhoto in RT? Does it have a special naming? I didnā€™t found it.

It should be on the list in the Color Management section, but Iā€™m not at my computer right now. Iā€™ve added a few profiles to RT but I think ProPhoto comes with it ā€¦ I think you can download a set of profiles that includes it.

So it probably makes sense to use ProPhoto in RT one way or the other, because the 32-bit calculation can possibly expand the color space in general? Since ProPhoto is the largest special color space here, I wonder if it might require extremely special cameras.

What is about the monitor? Without having a ProPhoto monitor it does make sense? Are there much monitors available which have ProPhoto?

So, when having ProPhoto, and a third business does not have ProPhoto printers or machines, there is not a lag in smaller color spaces? You cannot downsize a bigger to a smaller space or how does this work?

Your missing the point a bit againā€¦your sensor measures lightā€¦ 12 or 14 bit likelyā€¦ color spaces are defined based on a set of primaries with different gamma and gamut. THere is no prophoto cameraā€¦You have a number of profilesā€¦ the idea in most raw processors is keep as much of the gamut available until you have to drop it down to your intended outputā€¦

The color space, whether working (in RT) or export (in the file created by RT) is simply a set of ā€œboundariesā€ that define the (number and hue of) colors that can be used. The larger the color space, the fewer issues there will be with out-of-gamut (i.e., ā€œunusableā€) colors. Thatā€™s functionally independent of what the sensor captures*, what your monitor can display, what your printer can output, etc. They all have their limits but theyā€™re independent of each other. In general itā€™s preferable to have devices that can handle as many colors as possible (i.e., have as large a gamut as possible), but they each have their own.

* A @priort pointed out, the concept of a color space doesnā€™t apply to a sensor - Itā€™s just a light capturing device. Itā€™s after that captured light is converted to an image that color space comes into play.

By using a color space (at any given point in the workflow) thatā€™s large enough to ā€œcontainā€ all the colors output from the previous step in the workflow, no conversions are necessary. Thereā€™s really n downside to using a large working color space. Having a color space thatā€™s too large isnā€™t a problem ā€“ Itā€™s having one that too small where troubles arise. As an analogy, you can pour a teacup of water into a swimming pool without issues, but not the other way around.

I recommend reading this: Tutorials on Color Management & Printing, in particular the " From Camera to Display to Print" section.

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RT comes with ProPhoto and itā€™s can be found in the Working Profile list. Whatā€™s found in the Output Profile listā€¦

image

ā€¦includes anything you add to the directory specified in preferences:

I donā€™t remember offhand if by default RT puts a ProPhoto profile there, but like I said it can be downloaded (as an *.icm or *.icc file) and put into that folder.

There are ways to do thisā€¦
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-space-conversion.htm

Iā€™ve been trying to understand this for a long time, but I canā€™t draw it on paper yet :slight_smile:

@lphilpot Thanks for the help. I will read the tutorial. Iā€™ve also read RT RawPedia (great) a lot across, but itā€™s the first time Iā€™ve gone so much into the detail of the color :slight_smile:

Me neither :face_with_spiral_eyes:ā€¦ I found this book rather interesting though. It starts with the bare-bones and shows how we come to gamuts and all this stuff. I think someone pointed me to it but Iā€™ve forgotten who. Nicely written IMO.

Thank you very much

@priort @lphilpot

So please tell me, what calibration and software are you using, have you set the hardware LUT to your graphics card and what have you set in RawTherapee for this?

I use ART, not RawTherapee, but theyā€™re obviously very similar. I have ProPhoto as both working and export color space. I donā€™t mess with LUTs. Iā€™m on Windows now and I use a SpyderX with their software. Iā€™ve used DisplayCal in the past on Linux but so far Iā€™m good to go on Windows with the DataColor software.

What is ART?

Ah ok the search engine only gives a good tip in combination with rawtherapee vs ART and now i got it

I mostly us DT and I only have half the equation. I calibrate the camera with my spyderchecker color card to get an input icc file for DT but I dontā€™ have a calibrated monitor. For now until the day I get a device to calibrate it I use the monitors sRGB mode as that is usually what I export to most oftenā€¦ It would be better to be calibrated but the output is fine for me for nowā€¦
Also if you are trying to understand how it all comes together from sensor to output you could scan this and follow the math or not but even seeing the steps and the flow is informativeā€¦

@priort This is very good information, thank you very much for the link