I didn’t know you were French.
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Kudos to the developers of darktable and the compilers who make it work on Linux, Windows or Mac. Kudos also to the people who create and compile the various flavors of Linux which has resurrected old hardware that Windows has given up on. I am just an ignorant computer user who has been spoon-fed software solutions that you just download, install and run. So thank you to those who compile the software for people like me.
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I’m not the most insightful person ever but at the same time I’m not totally naive. I have friends who, during COVID, leapt (with both feet) off the conspiracy theory cliff and after a while I just had to quietly distance myself a bit. It was difficult enough trying to come to any point of common sense, let alone with their strident “insights”, discoveries and accusations constantly bombarding me. I decided to believe what seemed reasonable to believe, by whatever metric I could trust (for some small value of “trust” LOL) and let the rest go. Our friendships survived, AFAICT, if at the expense of a little residual distance. Based on what I learned of them during COVID, that extra buffer may not be a bad thing.
Know what I mean? 
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Frankly, I have been there. I was that Mac fanboi who wouldn’t shut up about it. Later, I was that Linux nerd with a partisan FOSS-chip on his shoulder. But all that is many years ago. I like to thing I’ve grown wiser in the meantime.
I think my central realization between then and now is grokking the difference between fandom and partisanship. It is OK to love Linux, or Apple, or Nikon, or $religion. It is not OK to impose that worldview on other people.
Perhaps due to scar tissue, I tend to avoid such topics these days. If asked specifically, I do like @lhutton, and give a high-level overview without going into the specifics. Only if pressed, if there’s genuine interest, I’ll tell them -at length- why I enjoy Darktable, or Fuji, or MacOS. And I’ll reciprocate, and am genuinely interested why they love whatever they love. There’s always insight in such discussions. So long as nobody implies others should do as they do.
On that topic, I have been working most of my career so far as a Linux programmer. I suppose you would call my work “full-stack”, i.e. running the gamut from end-user UI work through scripting, devops, apps logic, infrastructure, down to embedded code. So I’d say I know this world rather well.
Yet, I have recently started a new job as a Windows developer, not least of all to see what that world is like (I’ve been a Mac dev in the past). After years of Linux, it is quite the change of pace. Instead of a text editor and terminal running SSH and GCC, it’s now Visual Studio and RDP. Instead of text files, it’s now IDE configuration GUIs. But, quite frankly, that’s all surface-level minutiae. The core is still the same. It’s compilers, algorithms, and data structures, only now expressed in C++ and C# instead of python and C. I find it fascinating how well my previous experiences actually carry over to that world (and also my education as an audio signal processing scientist to image processing).
And the same thing applies to operating systems and cameras, really. They are, ultimately, means to an end. While it is fun to discuss the various merits of different tools, what counts in the end is the shared goal.
Cameras and raw developers are tools for photography, and therein lies our shared passion. I much prefer to be a “photographer” and “programmer”, not a Fuji-shooter, Darktabler, nor Emacsen or Pythonista, although all of those are accurate to a degree. But the latter is brand partisanship, framed by marketing as a territorial war between competing ideologies.
But that’s folly. Brands are not people. They don’t reciprocate love. They don’t care about us. They’re only on it for the money. So don’t base your personality on them. But as I said, I’ve been there. It’s an easy trap to fall into. But there’s a huge difference between “I am a Apple user” and “I use Apple computers”. As a matter of fact, I only recently bought an Apple computer. It was Linux before, and Windows before that. Which is inconceivable if your tie your identity to a brand. And therein lies the problem.
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I’ve seen that happen to two of my friends as well. A truly terrifying thing to witness. My condolences to you.
(I do wonder whether a dive into Linux or photography is seen by some people as a similar loss of sanity? I guess I don’t want to know, really.)
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I used to be a die-hard evangelist for Linux. My first install was Redhat on 1.4Mb floppy disks in my mid-forties to give you some perspective. After using Mandrake/Mandriva I ended up with PCLinuxOS, a distro I used to adore and still greatly admire for which I set up the Dutch/Belgium website and community as well as releasing localized remasters/snapshots. After a few years with Arch I’ve now settled on Manjaro.
At one point in time (2010 I believe) I even released the PCLinuxOS DPE (or Digital Photography Edition) chock-full with profiles, gimp scripts and even (with permission from the author Gabor Horvath) an early version of the then-unfree Rawtherapee.
I did the best I could to convince people using Linux for photography was not just possible, but allowed you a far better understanding of the principles of image processing. I also held (and still do) that using Linux software allows one to extract the absolute last little bit of pixel detail from a raw file, something Windows and Mac software could not replicate at the time. (most Linux software would only have limited cross-platform ability).
I got into so many fights I cannot even remember, I got banned multiple times froms online forums and other platforms. I ran up such a crowd of anti’s on DPreview I eventually stopped visiting that site on a daily or even weekly basis.
In the end, now that I’m old and wise at 66 (thank you Alan Parsons) I have realized I don’t really care anymore what others do or don’t do. I enjoy my photography hobby, the software I get to work with (such as DT which has grown incredibly over the years and Digikam which keeps getting better and better with incremental speed). When asked if I photoshopped an image I now simply say “yes, of course” instead of jumping and yelling “NO! I Gimp’ed it!”.
When others tell me about the latest cost of running an Adobe subscription I sympathize and go “Yes, that certainly IS a lot of money” without immediately launching into the benefits of open source. When they ask me how I accomplished something, I focus on the techniques, not the software that employs those techniques and only if people push it and ask where in Photoshop or Lightroom they can find that particular filter or function I respond naïvely “Oh, I heard of Photoshop and Lightroom but I’ve never ever used it so I cannot really help you. Maybe try an online forum?”
And as a last resort I’ll explain that I use (almost exclusively except for NeatImage and Photomatix) open-source software on a Linux PC and immediately add to that that I would not recommend it for them as it will likely be far to complicated for them. That tends to get them all the time as it seems to suggest they are stupid (which generally fits the bill). What they do with thàt anger is their problem, no longer mine.
I end up walking my dog in the local forest and living the good life, feeling pretty smug about it all…
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Great input, thanks
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Maybe you just have a rather specialized form of intelligence. That does not necessarily mean (1) that you’re overall very intelligent, nor (2) that everyone who doesn’t share your own type of intelligence is stupid. But it could mean that you’re at least slightly on the spectrum, and perhaps precisely because of that, (1) you may have difficulties recognizing forms of intelligence that diverge from your own, and (2) Linux is the perfect system for you.
I’m just saying, I’ve seen it first hand. At least some Linux people have a tendency to think of you as stupid for simply not yet being familiar with any aspect of their little realm of control. Tell a Linux person that you don’t know how to open the console or mount a partition in Debian, and they’ll start explaining to you what a keyboard is and where to find the power button.
I had to note this down because otherwise I like your comment very much, but that part grated me, because it strikes at the very divide between Linux people like you vs non-Linux people like me. I’m not stupid. Over the course of my life I have simply stretched my mind primarily into other directions. That’s not “stupid”, that’s just different from you. And the reason why you may have certain difficulties recognizing that may just be the exact same reason why you prefer Linux.
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What an incredibly odd reply! You seem to be an amateur psychiatrist which I did not know to be a common hobby at all. But thank you for your diagnosis of being “on the spectrum” - I know what that looks like from first-hand experience sadly.
I will tell my wife (who doesn’t really know anything about operating systems and/or the whole open-source world but has happily used a Linux computer to run her business that she is probably “on the spectrum”. I sadly cannot tell my mother anymore who, at 75 years of age, got used to a Linux laptop in no time at all.
To you, I seem to warrant no more than being part of “Linux people” which means I must simply know something about “how to open the console or mount a partition in Debian”. I would refer you to the difference between computer users and computer hobbyists. To the average user, installing Windows OS is a huge task which involves getting and installing drivers, endless updating and searching for and installing userspace applications. Some Windows users may once in a while even need guidance to access the command shell as well.
What grated me in YOUR response is that you took a post which is clearly targeted at “non linux people, especially photographers?” and took it so personally that it made you angry enough to start slinging mud and relapse into the use of ad hominems. All you did is reinforce my last sentence “That tends to get them all the time as it seems to suggest they are stupid (which generally fits the bill)”
But you need more than thàt to get me angry. You won’t see me responding anymore because I can waste my time far more productively on other things. If it makes you feel less inadequate to put me in the box of people who are “on the spectrum” - by all means enjoy!
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It seems to me that “othering” people is a source of much strife. At best, it is wasteful and unproductive. At worst, is is deadly.
My customs and preferences and enjoyments and satisfactions and hopes and fears are different to those of another person. This is enriching when we communicate and learn from each other. But if we insist that our ways are the best ways for each other, we become entrenched in our misunderstandings of each other, and drive each other into corners.
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Personally, whether someone is a dedicated FOSS photographer, a dedicated proprietory photographer, or somewhere in between, makes no difference at all to me — why should it?
Unfortunately, however, I have been on the receiving end of a few (often unintentional) biases as a FOSS enthusiast (not least of all because I use Linux instead of Windows, for some strange reason): I’ve often been veiwed as being ‘less professional,’ ‘less serious,’ or even ‘not a proper photographer’ because I don’t use expensive proprietory software. Maybe that’s true; they can think what they like — it still doesn’t change the fact that my photos blow all of theirs into the weeds and my bank balance is a heck of a lot healthier. 
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Some people are passionate to gain deeper insight into a subject. Be it history, photography or post stamps.
The transparency of open source software attracts such people, allowing them to tinker and learn as they wish.
See what passion people might have (or not) and choose your friends accordingly.
Be aware of the fake nerds.
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Software choice is a really silly thing to let get in the way of friendships. Just accept that not everyone is interested or sees the value in open source software and treat them the same way you would have otherwise. As someone who loves open source software myself, there are elements of the movement that are very cult-like. But in this case, no one’s eternal soul is at stake. Just live and let live.
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What a gorgeous doggie!
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This is the best reply. Really are we judging our friends by how ethically they choose their vehicle or their food or well the list goes on and could be endless. To do so surely leads to being alone more often than with friends. We would do best to migrate to people who are loyal, genuine and authentic. Those that bring us joy, enhance our lives and offer us a sense of community and support, yet they may hold many views that are not universal in that friendship. It would be nice if they are open to suggestion but really all we can do is demonstrate and share our ideas and talent and let that be the billboard. People can then read and observe that billboard and perhaps take note and others will ignore. Finally if we ask that of others we must also hold ourselves to the same standard… A great picture is a great picture. Talk about why you took it. Where you took it and how you took it.
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Hi Tim,
often our workplace dictates the need to use Windows or even specialized software to do some of our jobs dictates Windows and or Mac. However, as I approach retirement I feel more attracted to linux for my personal use.
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Although I agree that friendship should not depend on the software people use, there is one aspect that bothers me a lot.
Besides my work as an event photographer, I also work as a media educator with various educational institutions and other public institutions that are mostly financed by state funding. These are the institutions like schools, youth clubs or adult education centers.
The financial resources they have at their disposal are limited and must be used very carefully. In addition, they have an educational mandate that, among other things, should ensure openness of access and the development of so-called “media competence” among participants.
However, in practice, it looks completely different. The majority of the money is spent on purchasing licenses, ranging from operating systems (usually Windows) to application software (such as Adobe). This often creates the need for frequent migrations because newer versions of software require newer hardware. Unfortunately, Linux or other free software is not considered an option.
The decision of what gets installed there depends, among other things, on the people who offer courses in these facilities, whether they are teachers or external lecturers. Most of them don’t think about it or aren’t aware of alternatives. Those who have heard about free software or have only tried it in a rudimentary way still perpetuate the typical stereotypes that free software is an ‘incomplete’ alternative for poor people or for technically savvy geeks.
I personally know some of these people as colleagues in photography, and even though I don’t care about what they use privately, I believe they also bear a certain responsibility when offering their courses. Not every child, teenager, or other course participant can afford the required software and is therefore excluded if they don’t meet this requirement. On the other hand, this approach promotes lobbying for specific software and restricts access to alternatives.
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Hello @s7habo
This often creates the need for frequent migrations because newer versions of software require newer hardware. Unfortunately, Linux or other free software is not considered an option.
In Italy (Piedmont), where I work, as a civil servant, we have migrated all our computers (thousands of them) to open source softwares since many years.
The backend system is a mix of Linux and Windows (all virtualized). In short there is still a proprietary part (Microsoft and Oracle, just to name a few).
Luckilly all the softwares for the final users (the public workers) are mostly open source:
For example:
LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Office
Gimp instead of Adobe Photoshop
QGIS instead of Esri Arcgis
etc etc
At first, for the workers, it was difficult to adapt but now, on the whole, they are happy 
The only problem is the lack of resources to always update these softwares on ALL these computers.
Therefore, these open source softwares are often very old versions…
For instance LibreOffice is version 7.0.x instead of 7.5.0
Gimp is 2.10.8 instead of 2.10.34
etc etc
One way to reduce this problem is to run portable versions of these softwares (e.g. https://portableapps.com/). By doing so you can run the latest versions of them.
However, this method is a bit frowned upon by our IT administrators and it is sometimes tricky to do smoothly (without conflicts with the official, old version).
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I am a big supporter of Free Software and especially Linux as an operating system. Although I openly admit to using FOSS, I am very reluctant to make recommendations in this direction. Because if I recommend Linux or darktable, I am immediately blamed if something doesn’t work. If something doesn’t work with Linux, it’s an immature nerd system. If something doesn’t work with Windows, that’s just the way it is (computers are dumb). If I recommend darktable, people immediately ask why the software doesn’t have features XYZ of Lightroom. Advantages are hardly noted (except the “price”).
Therefore, I hold back with recommendations and explain the advantages of FOSS almost only on demand. That’s how I get along quite well with most people. My allergy is only to Windows, which I unfortunately still have to use in part in my work environment.
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