New compact cameras - announcement roundup

[paperdigits (Mica)]

Not yet!

[europlatus]

@elGordo

Here in Canada, real wages have not kept up with the cost of living in the last 5 years. Going further than that requires some research. But my gut agrees with you.

Yes, I admit it’s from my gut and my own personal experience rather than real data, but it’s clear lots of people feel the same. I don’t think it’s just nostalgia, at least in Canada.

We also need to remember how percentages work. The same percentage increase has a much bigger impact on higher amounts than smaller amounts, obviously. So, house and car prices will be hugely affected compared to a cup of coffee. Just the recent tariffs has shown how the most expensive cameras have gone up by almost $1000, whereas the cheaper ones have only gone up by a $100 or so.

Plus, looking at wages is not actually very helpful. We should be looking at disposable income after essentials have been bought/paid.

For example, say prices and wages have both gone up by 30%.
$1000 item x 30% = $1300
Monthly disposable income of $500 x 30% = $650

So you have an extra $150 to spend, but the item you want has gone up by $300. In effect, the item has become more unaffordable than before, even though you have received the same percentage increase in income (yes it can work in your favour too, depending on your situation).

It’s all much more complicated than this obviously, but it’s just to show that we can’t simply look at median income vs inflation when it comes to affordability.

[elGordo (Gord)]

@europlatus

we can’t simply look at median income vs inflation when it comes to affordability.

True, it depends on what basket of expenses are included in inflation measurements and what basket of product a given person requires.

[bastibe (Bastian Bechtold)]

@paperdigits

Damn, pentaxrumors is saying the GR IV will be out of stock for at least a year,

Especially in North America, probably. I’m still reading how folks in the US are only now receiving their X100VIs, which they ordered on launch day; yet I walked into my local camera store yesterday in Germany, and they had two in stock.

Also, there’s a difference between things not being available at all, and having a few weeks of back orders. Sadly, Fujifilm seems to have proven that a little bit of scarcity can be a powerful marketing tool.

[paperdigits (Mica)]

Well if mine isn’t shipped shortly after launch, I’ll be looking around.

[hatsnp (Nuno Paulino)]

Perfect opportunity for a small vacation in Europe

[paperdigits (Mica)]

Lol I hate flying.

[Tamas_Papp (Tamas K. Papp)]

@europlatus

Powershots, Cybershots, the IXUS/ELPHs, the Fuji MX cameras… And there were more brands like Agfa, Yashica… Yes, they were point and shoots, but they offered varying levels of control and were still considered capable cameras. And they were affordable.

I haven’t done the maths, but I bet they were more affordable to the average person back then compared with what you pay these days for the cheapest camera from a big brand.

So let’s do the maths. The Powershot G9 and G10 were introduced at approx $500 around 2007-2008, which is about $750 today. What does that buy you in 2025?

If you want an enthusiast 1/1.7" compact, that category pretty much died out, but 1/2.3" compacts exist from Panasonic, in small (TZ99) or large (FZ80D) form factors, for around $500–600.

You can get a Canon R100 with a basic kit lens for about $600 (R50 kits are above $800), a Nikon Z30 for about $700. $800 gets you an OM-D E-M10 Mark IV 14-42mm kit.

All of these are very capable cameras: the Panasonic travel zooms are perfect for casual travel photography, and all the kits above, though not having all modern bells and whistles, of course run circles around the enthusiast compacts of the 2000s.

So, for the same amount of money (inflation adjusted), you get much more camera these days: cameras are getting more and more affordable in the long run.

[europlatus]

@Tamas_Papp

you get much more camera these days: cameras are getting more and more affordable in the long run.

Getting more camera for your money does not equate to cameras being more affordable.

I don’t actually disagree with most of your points, I’m just not sure we’re exactly talking about the same things. I’m talking about the entry level, but you’re talking about enthusiast level.

My main point stemmed from my efforts to buy my daughter her first camera. I didn’t want to spend more than about $300. My choices were either a very old used camera, or something like an Instax. There were no point and shoots from reputable brands. I was hoping that even used, I could find something at this price point that wasn’t over 10 years old.

The main brands generally don’t release anything under $1000 these days, and even a few years old, the used models don’t shift much, maybe by $100-$200. Is it not true that this entry-level segment has gone, replaced by smartphones?

[paperdigits (Mica)]

But the entry level camera is on your phone. It isn’t exactly affordable, costing more than entry level cameras for the most part, but let’s not pretend that you can’t get into photography with your phone’s camera. And your phone’s camera provides more features than entry level camera of the past ever did. There is a crapton of compelling photography done on people’s phones.

[europlatus]

@paperdigits

, but let’s not pretend that you can’t get into photography with your phone’s camera.

I’m not sure anyone is arguing you can’t get into photography anymore. But the dedicated camera market is different, and that’s specifically what I wanted to buy my daughter.

Anyway, there are some new cameras coming out from cheap manufacturers with “old” brands, like Yashica. Not the same company of course, but it will be interesting to see if they improve. Also, the action cam market is starting to highlight their stills capabilities, so I’m optimistic for the future.

Happy shooting everyone. I’m going out to do some photography!

[Tamas_Papp (Tamas K. Papp)]

@europlatus

I’m just not sure we’re exactly talking about the same things. I’m talking about the entry level, but you’re talking about enthusiast level.

I feel like that you are moving the goalposts for this discussion. You mentioned the Powershot, but when I respond with the numbers, it is not what you consider relevant.

Perhaps you should specify what you mean by that term. Strictly speaking, anything that can take photos can support “entry” into photography.

@europlatus

efforts to buy my daughter her first camera. I didn’t want to spend more than about $300.

Anything more or less equivalent to a Nikon D300 with a prime lens or a basic but decent zoom fits those requirements, possibly with cash to spare for an extra battery.

[afre (Alan)]

I am at the bottom of the ladder, so I know how things are more expensive given people’s life situation. I have been frank numerous times that I cannot afford anything we talk about here. That said, things are relatively inexpensive in terms of listed price, with wider availability, nowadays. Indeed, the mobile camera is sufficient for most use cases. I just don’t share photos as often because everyone’s photo is so much better or interesting.

Availability of niche gear, back orders, etc., on the other hand, is quite real and frustrating. After all, scarcity is sometimes good for business.

[bastibe (Bastian Bechtold)]

@europlatus

My main point stemmed from my efforts to buy my daughter her first camera. I didn’t want to spend more than about $300. My choices were either a very old used camera, or something like an Instax. There were no point and shoots from reputable brands. I was hoping that even used, I could find something at this price point that wasn’t over 10 years old.

I got my 4 year old a Nikon 1 J3 with the 10mm prime lens. That’s a very kid-appropriate camera in terms of size and ease of use, and it fits the budget. It’s a 12 year old camera, though. I find obsolete systems are the best options: Nikon 1, Samsung NX, Canon M, maybe Pentax Q.

[Tim (Tim Cuthbertson)]

@afre

After all, scarcity is sometimes good for business.

Yeah, like with Rolex and Omega watches. Some models are never generally available.

[europlatus]

@Tamas_Papp

I feel like that you are moving the goalposts for this discussion.

To be honest, I’m not sure where the goalposts are anymore. Lots of things have been discussed, including entry-level, affordability, inflation, used market, smartphones, beginners, enthusiasts…

I originally intended just to make a few points about how the entry-level segment now resides in the used market and decade-old cameras, and that certain options are very expensive, such as compact rangefinders.

But I appreciate that everyone’s situation is different and the environment is different in each country (we can’t even get PEN cameras here in Canada. They’re simply not sold, so we have to import).

Anyway, I don’t want any of this to devolve into an argument or heated discussion, so maybe it’s best just to leave it there. Apologies if I’ve made it feel that way.

[europlatus]

@afre

I just don’t share photos as often because everyone’s photo is so much better or interesting.

You should not refrain from sharing your photos. I love to see what everyone else shoots. It’s always interesting, especially if it’s different to my own work, and even if you yourself don’t think it’s interesting.

And I hear you about perception of expensive and life situation. Sometimes we forget how it’s all relative and how different people may perceive $50 here, $500 there. I have a very well-off friend who constantly forgets that I can’t just go out and buy a new electric car whenever I want

[Macchiato17 (Lars Fiedler)]

@afre

I just don’t share photos as often because everyone’s photo is so much better or interesting.

Oh no, please share - it’s so important to show one’s photos (I do it more often in fediverse and less here). And hey we are a community here and I’m pretty sure that others, too are also interested in how you see the things - not just me.