Photography without visualisation

I think part of what makes one lens outings so nice is that you start seeing only photos for that FL. In addition you see more or at least better shots that way. The lens will guide you. I dont think Iā€™ve actally ever really wished I had another lens with me. Particularly when looking at results.

I do feel I have the responsibility to others to make sure I describe things well. This is why I feel the need for several lenses but this is because others have use of my images.

For railway shooting, I canā€™t afford lens changing due to 1) dust, and 2) close proximity to large moving machinery.

Even for my other subjects, having adjustable reach and framing lets me concentrate on placing the major objects, lines, and textures in the scene.

For kicks, I went to my most recent ā€œscenic walkaboutā€ collection and did a focal length histogram:

focal

Yep, I could have done that morning with 24mm and 70mm primes, but what doesnā€™t show here is the interspersal of those shots - in this case, all done without a single lens change. Also, note the intermediate ranges are also represented.

For me, since the '70s and film, a zoom has been first and foremost a composition tool. And that was after working three primes to death, 28mmm 50mm (which got almost no use after I procured the 28mm), and 115mm.

Ha, same here, but at least I hear music the whole timeā€¦if only I could write it down :slight_smile:

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Every time Iā€™ve seen stats like that they show the vast majority of shots clustered at the edge of the zoom range. The conclusion is often a bit like yours that 24 and 70 primes would be useful or 28 and 105 or 70 and 200 depending on the lens being used.

Part of what I was trying to say above is that itā€™s clearly the other way around. You take 24 and 70mm shots because you have a 24-70 zoom. With a 50mm prime you would take 50mm shots :slight_smile: In more circumstances than one might imagine this wonā€™t give you a lesser portfolio at the end.

Iā€™m not arguing that you should use primes as you have clearly explained why for your photography it makes no sense. For say a wedding photographer a 24mm and a 70mm is probably two good focal lengts so a two set zoom would be almost as useful simply because those two FLā€™s are userful in that scenario.

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Most of my lenses are primes. But I also have zoom lenses and there are use cases for them escpecially if you are on a boat where you can not zoom by feetā€¦

My Zoom lens is a prime :stuck_out_tongue:

zooms change field of view, feet change perspective.

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Or you have children, who donā€™t care for the right positionā€¦

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I donā€™t think Iā€™ll ever buy a 50mm prime. It just looks too ā€˜normalā€™ā€¦ :smiley:

Funny, itā€™s the movement of children that got me back to photography. But, that was about point&shoot cameras that took their good time between button-press and shutter-open; by then, children had moved on and we had a nice picture of the floorā€¦ :laughing: Bought the D50 to remedy that, and the rest is, well, inevitabilityā€¦

The large peaks at the two ends of your histogram could also be interpreted as:

  • the 24 mm peak represents all the shots you took at 24 mm because it was what you wanted plus all the shots you would have preferred a shorter focal length.
  • the 70 mm peak represents all the shots you took at 7- mm because it was what you wanted plus all the shots you would have preferred a longer focal length.

Was that the case?

Pretty much, for that part of the morning. I did go back to the truck and get my 70-300 for a few things I made a note of as I walked about with the 24-70; theyā€™re not included in the histogram.

I donā€™t know if this is from being a writer or what, but I always found I produced my best writing when i could literally see the scene in my head and move through it.

But you can do it, because pre-visualization can be done while youā€™re standing at the scene. Also, I think digital photography has freed us from a lot of the classic Ansel Adams pre-visualization type of work. With black and white (and to a lesser extent color) film, once needed to determine a lot of the artistic decisions before clicking the shutter. When I was shooting b&w film, before I clicked the shutter I had already noted the contrast and development time that the film would need. With digital we donā€™t need to do that, we need only consider composition, depth of field, and capturing the full tonal range of the scene (via a single frame or bracketing). We can then make way more tonal adjustments in the digital darkroom.

More and more now, since I donā€™t have the time to spend hours randomly roaming around, I will use the satellite view in google maps, along wit h specific tags on photo sites, and a sun calculator to try and figure out what the scene will look like before I get there. I try to imagine the angle and quality of the light striking the object I want to photograph. I try to figure out a few frames before I ever get there. I guess this counts as pre-visualizatoin.

If you can quantify what you like about your own work, what youā€™re attracted to, then this kind of feedback loop can help you while youā€™re out shooting. I donā€™t know of anyone who has that high of a keeper rate. Mine has improved as Iā€™ve improved my craft, but its still like 1/10 or 1/20 is a keeper.

You can exercise the compositional part of your brain, even if you donā€™t go out and shoot. Look at othersā€™ work.

For a while I had cut shapes out of paper and would arrange them on the table. If I found something pleasing, iā€™d try to figure out why. Maybe you even take a photo of your arrangement.

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I have this, too. The only time I can actually see things in my mind is when Iā€™m just falling asleep. I read somewhere that visualization in dreams happens in a different part of the brain than ā€˜normalā€™, waking visualization.

Lucky you to have this ability. I love to read but wish I could do this.

I think thatā€™s called ā€œseeingā€ :slight_smile:

Yes ā€“ regular review of my own output and that of others has helped in this regard.

Iā€™ve read a book that discusses composition in this way ā€“ Picture This: How Pictures Work ā€“ itā€™s definitely useful to consider composition in simple ways like this.

What happens if you look at a scene and try to ā€œseeā€ it in black and white? Or just expose it differently high key, low key? Can you understand the effect of these parameters by looking at a scene with your eyes?

I can do it but itā€™s not stable, takes work and practice and I would hesitate to say that I ā€œseeā€ it. I guess I sort of do as I understand how it could look but my feeling itā€™s more like a memory. I cant freely focus on everything at once. If i do the whole scene the understanding would be blurry. Doing parts I can get more fidelity. Seems to map well to who we actually process visuals which is different from the complete freeze and evenness of a photograph.

Iā€™m not sure I can even begin to work out how to do this but perhaps itā€™s something that comes with practice (something I usually donā€™t consistently have time for). I normally do these sorts of things by experimentation in post-processing.

Then I guess we do function differently. It was difficult from this discussion to understand what was semantics and what was actual difference. I have to emphasize though that for me itā€™s very fleeting and hard to ā€œgripā€ but I can certainly imagine quite well how a scene would look like black and white.

Always very difficult to put into words whatā€™s going on inside a personā€™s head. I have no idea if you see blue the same way I do, for example. Iā€™m still not sure Iā€™m able to explain it well.

Just curious: @elstoc, do you see the scenes vividly when you read? I do, even though (as I mentioned before) I also have problems with the ā€˜pre-visualise the final photographā€™ advice.

No. I see no mental images. Perhaps occasionally vague impressions of an overall scene or parts of it if well described. But fleeting and vague as if viewed through a thick fog (for want of a better description). I have trouble calling such impressions ā€œimagesā€ but I canā€™t find a better way to describe.

Thereā€™s a Vividness of Mental Imagery questionnaire that has a 1-5 scale from ā€œlike normal visionā€ to ā€œno imageā€. I suppose Iā€™m probably 4-5 on most questions.

I score higher on things Iā€™ve photographed and heavily edited.