I think, method a) is correct. Trying to avoid blowing the highlights while taking the shot is crucial. “Overexposing” while setting the exposure module is okay and can be corrected later.
With regard to black level, I try to set this in filmic or even later in other modules and not via exposure module.
Because this may not look like the original scene. Personally, I also like to do my own interpretation and will not go for just “nice”.
Concerning clipped highlights and automatic correction: There might be possibilities but it is certainly not enough to mask overexposed pixels. The mask has to fade out and for this you need some choice.
The automatic “nice” exposure is in general done be the camera software for the JPEGS. If one develops RAW there should be more choices.
Ive only explored filmic for test purposes so take that into account.
forget highlights when using the exposure module
shadows and black clipping are really hard to control with filmic. It is more focused on midtones and highlights. You are better off using other modules to handle shadows.
apparently (people who actually know might correct me) its impossible/hard to auto detect correct blacklevels due to noise or somrthingy.
To me it sounds a bit like you are maybe in the trap of looking for the magic “correct” solution with filmic, ie the “right” settings. This is so common with many of the darktable modules. I think you use the histogram as a guide and your eyes and use the tools to come to point where “you” like the look of the image…there is no magic auto setting for something like filmic at least that is my understanding of how to use it…also I think if anything filmic desaturates highlights and shadows so it often appears to remove contrast in some image. I believe AP clearly states this on numerous occasions as the intent of filmic and suggests the use of local contrast, color balance an contrast equalizer to provide saturation and contrast back to the image…so certainly you can play with white points, black points, and contrast in filmic…I think its real role is a nicely tone mapped image not a contrasted near final product…that has always been my take on the use of filmic…if you look at video editors using log to cram everything in to the dynamic range they are such a flat looking things at the start but all the information is there and its easier to add back contrast etc to a balanced image…Just post an image on the playraw forum at pixls.us and see how widely it will very…each person thinking they have a good edit and they do …to their eyes it is a good edit…it can be a trap to take a module with an expectation that plugging in a set of numbers will have it produce the look…with raw images your eyes are the best tool and you massage the look with the modules but you can create it with them…
Way back in the early days of filmic it was suggested to temp turn on raw de-noise with a high strength and then use the picker to set the black level and then turn it back off and proceed with the edit…this was as you say I believe to deal with noise in the shadows affecting an accurate black level
This is how I work with Exposure and Filmic. Make sure the linear workflow is enabled by default. Also realize that the default of +0.5 is supposed to be a general starting point. If your exposure is consistent in general, you should tweak this value using a preset so that the value is closer to how you like it.
Open the image
Adjust the Exposure module until the midtones look good. Pay no attention to clipping highlights or shadows. Exposure is for the mid tones
In Filmic, adjust the highlights until they don’t clip
In filmic, adjust the shadow until they don’t clip.
Fine tune highlights and shadows in Filmic until I’m happy.
Now that I get the hang of it, this process takes 30 seconds to a minute.
I find that I enable the grey slider again from options instead of going back to exposure or trying to guess how much to add. The default settings work pretty well for me and I just tweak the color preservation model starting from none until the color looks right and then adjust with the grey slider rather then mess further with exposure…above I think there was a comment about filmic being anchored at the ends and I think that is not really correct it is more anchored by the middle grey/exposure and then you map to a range of EV on either side that you set…if your image has extreme dark or highlights then you are going to need more ev in the range. I do like the new way to handle the midtones…I find it very intuitive to set the range based on the latitude and then to add or subtract saturation with the new mid-tone slider. All in all it works pretty well most often
@gpagnon: that’s my problem, too. I’ve played with filmic and basecurve and, filmic looks much more naturally than basecurve. JOF’s even don’t look naturally. Now, I’ve really (I see it) understand what AP means.
But, I guess, I want to have a module group or a list which modules are safe to use. There is a (outdated) list and there is information about this at several places. F. e. I find “local contrast” bad in most cases, although it is recommended.
I used to do it this way, but although filmic white relative exposure slider can prevent clipping, it doesn’t bring back detail lost through clipping exposure. So now my process is to boost exposure only to the point there is no clipping, or that the details clipped are of no great loss, and adjust overall brightness using middle grey luminance slider in filmic (which needs to be enabled firstly in the options tab).
My understanding is that the middle gray slider in Filmic RGB and the Exposure module do exactly the same thing. So the white slider can bring back detail that has been pushed past the histogram’s edge by the exposure module. I just tried to blow out the mid tones of a file using exposure and thing bring them back with Filmic RGB’s white slider; it doesn’t look good, but it works
Why use exposure and not basic adjustments? I like the auto feature in basic adjustments for a ultra quick starting point, and as a bonus I get contrast, saturation and vibrance.
Generally I think a quick start guide would be helpful to people new to darktable. I often read that people get it, play with it a little, delete it.
You can still use all of the modules but some must be used with care (don’t push the sliders too far) and, as with anything in darktable, there is usually more than one way to do something, so prefer the methods recommended in this article.
That is my understanding too, I may have been incorrect in saying “it doesn’t bring back detail lost through clipping exposure”, but I have certainly seen detail lost that couldn’t be recovered - it’s why I changed my workflow. Perhaps there was another module used in between exposure and filmic which clipped values irretrievably. So the main difference is that middle gray adjustment occurs late in the pipe, whereas exposure occurs early. Perhaps if you boost exposure beyond 255, and don’t use any modules in between it and filmic that irretrievably clip the data, then your process will be good. But if you push values beyond 255 then clip them in another module, they are lost to filmic. So how do you know which modules clip irretrievably and which don’t? I’m quite sure the current channel mixer does (but the new one in the works won’t). Not sure about the other modules.
thanks, I agree with your comment that mapping the black and white level to the min/max will change considerably the image look for some pictures, but I thought you could then refine the tone mapping via the Filmic module.
As for the automatic masking of the clipped-in-raw areas, for the purpose of highlight reconstruction, isn’t the degree of fading out of the mask already controllable by the Transition slider?
Thank you. When you say “In Filmic, adjust highlights and shadows”, do you mean the White Relative Exposure and the Black Relative Exposure sliders in the “scene” tab? And do you not touch the Look > Contrast slider at all?
This is interesting. So, if the Exposure and Middle Gray slider are in fact positioned earlier and later, respectively, in the pixel pipeline, it would make sense indeed to use the Exposure to avoid clipping and fine tune later with the re-enabled middle gray slider. Could somebody confirm that this is the case?