Cool. I will check.
And yet there are many lags and glitches when running krita through xwayland. I wonder why is that if it is so good and close to native xorg as possible.
We should be honest with the assessment and not downplay the issues that xwayland may have. Otherwise the people who make decision think that it is perfect and not improve it. We should report bugs and highlight the shortcomings and not boast and write off issues while cheering the death of xorg.
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Nobody is downplaying anything, merely stating that XWayland is not an emulation.
I donât use krita personally but I do use darktable and it works pretty well with XWayland so far. All the games I play with work fine(after many people rightfully reported bugs with xwayland that got fixed), as does GIMP, bitwig, etc.
I concede that some software must behave worse than others, but that is to be expected and should absolutely be worked on, and issues reported. In no way was I downplaying the issues with XWayland or cheering the death of xorg (lol).
I have been using wayland/xwayland on and off for a few years so Iâm well aware of all the progress that it went through and how things went from barely usable to the state they are now in.
You just seem be a contratian about everything wayland related, even if things were working perfectly fine there would still be issues from your perspective.
EDIT: I want to clarify that when I said ânativeâ it is from the perspective of the software, not the user. For all intents and purposes the software isnât talking to an emulated x server, which would probably lead to different issues than the ones we have.
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same for vkdt. i donât think iâm generally opposed to useful new tech, but so far my wayland experience has been rocky. to be fair much of it is due to nvidia drivers, but there is also a truckload of issues because complexity is pushed to compositors, windowing libraries, and client applications (who all duplicate the weirdest measures to fix issues with scale factors by guessing from environment variables etc). looking forward to this stuff to be resolved, i really want to use wayland on my computers as soon as i can.
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No. I regularly test wayland session and report bugs. If you see kde plasma bug report most of the bugs for graphic tablet settings for wayland are from me.
I am just tired of people telling me that wayland is ready when it is not. I am tired of developers making decisions (like the fedora devs did) ignoring what doesnât work. Hence since past two years at each occasion someone says wayland is ready for my use case (which involves color critical work) I reply with this tone.
For example someone takes replies on this forum and parrots that displaycal and other things work on wayland natively which is false (argyll is still not wayland native and has no access to display information by design). This misinformation is what I do not like. it will be ready when it is done. Till then please do not spread falsehoods which will then impact users like me from bad decisions of devs.
Also read this comment by a wayland developer about argyllcms and its wayland color management support - Draft: staging: add color management protocol (!14) ¡ Merge requests ¡ wayland / wayland-protocols ¡ GitLab
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Nicolas Fella and redstrate are doing awesome work to bring many improvements for graphic tablets under wayland in KDE plasma. Also checkout or follow posts from redstrate. There is also a KDE wide initiative to look into improving many input related issues.
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I donât think that Fedora (or any other distro) switched to Wayland because it was in any sense âreadyâ. Itâs just that the cost/benefit analysis of continuing to maintain the Xorg stack vs working on improving Wayland heavily favored the latter at some point.
Distros, especially those which contribute to desktop software, also face resource constraints.
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Yeah, that makes sense, but they lied that wayland is on parity with xorg and when I higlighted my concerns they were dismissive about it asking me to report bug which I had done already. They gave a PResque reply and said they cared about artists, but here we are it has been close to one year to their decision and yet we canât say everything is okay.
And regarding the shortage of manpower to maintain the package, someone else stepped up to maintain a repo for x11, which they tried to block. You can read about that drama here - KDE Plasma X11 support gets a reprieve for Fedora 40 [LWN.net] . Now why would they try to block someone else who is willing to do the job if it is about manpower?
And I do not blame them. It was my fault to depend on a distro which canât be used for production, as they themselves said on their matrix channel that anyone whose livelihood depends on the OS should not choose fedora.
Also I have seen atleast 3-4 of my artist friends ditch fedora for this decision, not because they hate wayland but because they canât use it right now. Example check this post by David Revoy
All this creates a negative sentiment among the users and this leads to resentment, people would use and try wayland and even help in reporting bugs, but events like these make users alienated. This behavior of forcing something leads to linux becoming just like windows.
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To be fair, fedora was never about ultimate choice and itâs not a bad idea to have a distro with very opinionated defaults or vision.
An example: if you downloaded workstation and then wanted to install kde, it was a badly documented process that lead to so many issues that simply didnât exist in other distros/package managers. The best thing to do was to install the kde version from the start.
Not every distro needs to provide users with ultimate freedom.
First, even if you find the way this was handled issue irksome, I would not generalize that broadly â Fedora is not Linux.
Second, I donât think it is as simple as a lone maintainer stepping up and doing the work. Major distros commit to security fixes, which means that whenever a vulnerability is found, a fix will be released in a timely manner. This means that if the lone maintainer is not responding promptly (for perfectly legitimate reasons, eg taking a break, or having a day job), they will have to step in and do the work.
Finally, there are plenty of distros that continue to support Xorg, including the LTS versions of most major distributions. Itâs not like anyone is forced to use Wayland at this point; making a new release without x11 does not imply that one has to switch. They can even keep up with recent versions of desktop packages via flatpak etc.
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Yes and I know that. I am using linux since 2014. I switched the distro. The only thing I lost is time required to migrate to another distro. I was giving an example of how falsehood affects decision making. And how we should call a spade a spade. If it doesnât work it doesnât work. All we should do is report a bug and pray that it will get fixed. We should not say that all is good while it is not because this spreads false message and it affects users.
I think this thread went into tangent about fedora and its decision to break user experience. My trust on fedora is broken and I always will think of it as a testing distro not suitable for serious work. I think we can stop debating about fedora on a thread about colour management.
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One more question from someone without major Linux know how:
could I use x11 to calibrate my monitor and create the icc-profile and then switch to Wayland and use that profile in the color management of the system settings to get useful results?
If I cannot use it system wide what is the preferred way of using it with darktable under Wayland?
My problem at the moment is: digikam (snap install I assume) is only running on Wayland (on my Ubuntu 24.10 system) and not in x11 any more.
GNOME and wayland, wide gamut display.
I installed DisplayCAL from flathub and it seems to profile and calibrate under wayland just fine. Ensure thereâs no previous calibration applied system wide before creating a new one.
But right now it looks like I need to manually select sRGB as the display profile in darktable, otherwise the display and exported color is not the same. I think this is because currently mutter assumes all XWayland surfaces are sRGB, so effectively darktable is run in sRGB display profile.
edit: A lot of the components are still using XWayland, so this is more of how to display sRGB accurately under wayland when using a wide gamut display and current available tools.
Both displaycal and darktable are running in xwayland, so not exactly âWayland color managementââ neither is setting the display profile to sRGB.
This still means we can have a correctly calibrated monitor under Wayland?
Sure, youâve been able to load an ICC profile for your monitor under Wayland for sometime. But running the complete calibration stack is where the problem is.
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I tried it - without success. When I use ubuntu with X11, install my icc profile than I can see an actual difference on the screen compared to no profile. When I do the same with wayland nothing happens when I install the profile. Is it only active in certain programs or how does it work?
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Iâve certainly had reports that a number of things work via xwayland, which is a great development, and much better than no color profiling support, but Itâs unclear whether this applied beyond a single display setup. The lack of support for display LUTs brings with it some important limitations:
- No support for white point or brightness setting unless you can do it via the display controls.
- No way of setting a desired luminance curve response for non-color managed applications.
- Lower resolution (i.e. more quantized) luminance curve response than is possible using Display LUTs that have higher resolution than the frame buffer.
Iâd guess that itâs technically possible to support the full range of X11 color management capabilities via xwayland, if someone wanted to go to enough trouble. Whether itâs possible to get such a thing past the Wayland âsecurity policeâ remains to be seen.