I once worked for a company who used some old CPU in an embedded hardware. One day the original manufacturer announced it would stop producing it; several years later production was… not shut down, no: sold to a company specialised in exploiting those who don’t take steps in time. They bought the manufacturing equipment, and continued producing the chip for 10-20x the original price. Neither shipping new products, nor warranty repairs were economical any more, but it took years to design and build the new hardware (and software to go with it). Even then, the previously sold units, using the old CPU, continued to incur costs until the warranty ran out.
3 Likes
Yeah, I know and had been part of a team trying douse the wildfire of hardware, software and infrastructure failing all at once. It did not help that the previous IT lead was on drugs, hacked everything together without so much as a documentation or credential trail.
In a similar vein, recently, our public library system, the largest in our country and apparently with the highest circulation in the world, got hacked and locked by ransom and other wares. It has taken more than half a year to recover most services. One government agency after another… IT is still grossly underfunded and disregarded in my country, while we threw tens of millions (a lot of money for us) at a government app that went nowhere and is currently under fraud investigation.
1 Like
FWIW, I held out for a long while on my wife’s Win10 computer, but after getting my laptop with Win11 on it and having basically no OS-related issues (just inherent design preferences vs. other OSes) we upgraded her PC several months ago and have had zero problems. Yes, there are some (again) preference-related things, mostly UI-centric, but those are easy enough to mostly work around. In terms of hardware / software compatibility it’s been OK.
And as I’ve said here many times before, I’m not a Microsoft nor Windows fan by any stretch. But I can’t deny that for daily purposes it works.
2 Likes
That is very fair of Microsoft, but then some good computers can not be upgraded because some component which in my case was the graphics card was not being supported in Windows 11. So all I am suggesting in my original post is that Linux is a viable alternative to turning a decent working computer into landfill. Also not everyone is in the financial position to just buy a new computer.
We had a data warehouse system that was 20+ years old when it was finally subsumed by an ERP deployment (SAP). Problem was, the hardware and software that comprised it was quite literally too reliable (Solaris / Oracle). Then again, maybe that’s a good problem to have, all things considered! 
Hmm… a lot of the conversation here has focused on the corporate world. Upgrading from Windows 10 to 11 should be less of a big deal for them and would in fact make good business sense. But many individual people may not have the finances or the inclination to upgrade their personal computer that is working fine for their needs. I am just suggesting that Linux is brilliant at taking older computer gear and keeping it running whereas the big players like Microsoft have no motivation or inclination to do this. I guess in my original post I am disturbed that updates will remain available but that a subscription would be required. This seems a new concept in the world of operating system, but as someone here pointed out it costs money to put these updates together for customers not willing to upgrade. So maybe not as unreasonable as I first thought, but for some people Linux is a suitable option.
3 Likes
We recently replaced my wife’s old Apple laptop that was getting long in the tooth. It was eight years old. But to their credit, Apple still provided security updates for it. Same for iPhones of that vintage.
In the Android world, this has long been a major problem. When I last replaced my phone, it was because they stopped security updates after three years. This however has changed, the EU now mandates at least seven years of security updates for phones.
On Windows, the update story is actually very good, with one big “if”: every big version, they bump hardware requirements, which deprecates a lot of machines. But they do so without technical reasons. I wish they would just openly state that this is about cash flow, not compatibility. I can’t fault them for wanting to earn money as a commercial company.
To the point of this thread, however: the hardware requirements of Windows 11 are only ever checked in the installer. The OS runs just fine on most hardware (it is technically just Windows 10 with a few minor tweaks). Workarounds are available for installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.
It is very true. Especially hurts when you need to spend x amount of money to buy what you want (or need) and your older computer is still okay.
Very true again. Microsoft is interested to force people to upgrade their hardware - they are walking together with the manufacturers. It is just business.
Actually it is not new. I’ve seen banks using windows XP way past the end of support date (and if I am not mistaken - windows XP was the first one to receive such a support - past EOSL date - for a fee). Same happen with windows 7. This is the “extended support” cycle (if I remember exactly how they call it). I have not heard about individuals using it because usually it is cheaper to upgrade the computer. When it comes to corporate world - yes they are interested and willing to pay. The reason is simple - they have older software (and the business depends on this software) that does not have good upgrade path and they need more time.
1 Like
The whole subscription thing makes it sound like something new.
It’s just extended support which has ways been a thing, just never so public and not available for regular consumers.
And windows 10 is now almost 10 years old, and most other Windows versions always had around 10 year support. Vista had 10, XP had 12. Windows 7 had 11 years.
So, end of life for Windows 10 is nothing new. Offering paid extended support is nothing new. It is on the quick side for an OS that was once described by MS itself as ‘the last version of windows, ever’.
The whole OP post still stands firmly though. There is no reason for windows 11 not to have the same requirements as windows 10. So making random requirements and declaring the old version as end of life feels wrong.
I get where MS comes from, they want a base spec for new PCs they can rely on. But right now , every pc running windows 10 can run windows 11 just fine. So make the requirements a thing when they finally, really become a problem. Not now already ‘just because’.
3 Likes
To be fair, that was in the context of (Microsoft claiming) all future upgrades / updates being done in-place through the Windows Update infrastructure, i.e., no new from-scratch installs – incrementals forever. That was more than a bit ambitious when announced and they started backing down from it pretty shortly.
1 Like
Any I guess this is what makes Linux such a good choice for so many users.
1 Like
I am not sure there is any kind of conspiracy going on. Eg Windows 11 hardware requirements are so basic (4+ Gb RAM, 1+ GHz CPU, simple graphics capabilities) that you would have a hard time browsing today’s web (which, admittedly, is a bloated mess of JS) on anything significantly weaker.
Sure, you can “keep it running”, but it will be severely limited, since demand always makes use of available hardware capabilities. One can install Linux on a 10 year old machine, but it cannot work miracles, and browsing eg contemporary webpages will be frustrating. Of course old machines will be fine for e-mail, word processing, and similar, but that’s about it.
1 Like
Hello @Tamas_Papp
I am not sure there is any kind of conspiracy going on.
Yeah. I totally agree. Unless you are an hard-core Linux user and you want to find Microsoft alwayas at fault (just joking…) 
I run a computer with Windows 8.1 at home even though Microsoft stopped updating it since many years now. At present, its system is still working super-fine (this pc is veerry old) and it never ever had a single problem.
Currently, I run an anti-virus on it and that’s all about it
1 Like
The problem is not those basic requirements, but others put over “special hardware” that leave much more powerful machines without the possibility to update. My laptop (a powerful machine in 2015, now middle of the road) would run circles around the “minimum spec” machine, but as it doesn’t have a TPM chip can’t be upgraded. And that’s an artificial limitation, because that chip only deals with security and certification, so could be simply waived with an “are you really sure you want to run in this condition?” question at install time.
My laptop is 10 years old and browsing the web is very far from frustrating. It actually runs darktable and several games just fine, besides all my work tasks (which could get pretty heavy). Single core computer capabilities (the kind more needed for simple office tasks) has plateaued since many years ago, with the focus now on power efficiency and multicore capabilities.
In any case, I double-boot and spend 99% of the time on Linux, keeping the Windows install just to run a couple of games. Once Win10 stops receiving updates I guess I’ll just reclaim that space for the Linux installation.
2 Likes
I switched from Windows to Linux in 2010?? I really can’t remember now. I’ve not missed it a bit. Yes there are a lot of great photo processing programs out there that only run Windows, but I do quite well with darktable. I have no real interest in those windows programs.
I guess it really depends on which pool you want to swim in. At first I missed what was available to windows at the time, but now I don’t even think about it I just use what’s available and it works fine for my purposes.
In all those years of running Linux I have never had an issue with hardware conflicts.
You can use Rufus to create the Windows 11 USB and remove the requirements for TPM. Don’t know if Microsoft will make things more awkward in the future but for now it’s easy enough to get Win 11 on unsupported computers.
2 Likes
There will always be one workaround or other, but the reality is that the common user will not go to those extents and when microsoft tells them they can’t upgrade and need to buy a new computer, they will take MS’s word for it and do so.
2 Likes
And this is the only part where I somewhat get MS. It’s not about features that require it now, but they want to build features relying on it, and want to know that every machine that got a win11 label is able to run it well .
And also why I think it’s a shame. They bumped the major version just to bump the requirements ‘for when they finally really need them’. Do the version bumping THEN , when it’s really needed, and don’t go marking speedy machines as ‘unsupported’ unless they really are.
But remember, ‘supported’ is not about making it run. It’s about claiming that it SHOULD work and wanting to stand behind that.
MS isn’t claiming things aren’t going to work, they are claiming ‘you are on your own’.
And a TPM chip isn’t required , a TPM implementation is required. It can be a software implementation in the UEFI like on the Steamdeck and a lot of other hardware from years ago.
At one point they even had more ram requirements, but those have been lowered the last years.
But - in case it sounds too much like I’m defending them - there was no reason for the major version bump with more requirements when they did it. It stull isn’t required technically at the time of writing. So they could’ve postponed the win11 label for quite some more time.
2 Likes
I have run Linux as my main OS for many years. I have run MacOS for several years. I have run Windows for many years as well.
They all require some amount of tinkering to run well and suit my needs. Hardware compatibility is mostly a solved problem these days. The main limitations are: don’t run MacOS if you want to play video games. Don’t run Linux if you want to run Photoshop.
I generally need to run a different operating system at home and at work. Both take place at the same desk, using the same display and keyboard and mouse. So I need some visual change to keep my mind from mixing them together. When my work was using Linux, I ran Windows at home. When I was working in MacOS, I ran Linux at home. Now I work in Windows, and run MacOS at home.
The line between Windows and Linux has blurred considerably with the introduction of the WSL. For a few years, I was a full-time Linux developer, running Linux in the WSL. It is a tremendously good system actually. “Linux on the Desktop”. I prefer it to the not-quite-Linux that is MacOS’ Unix environment.
At the moment, I enjoy my tiny, quiet, reliable little Mac Mini. It’s delightful hardware. It runs Darktable as well as Lightroom. And more importantly, runs niche software such as a European banking app that doesn’t annoy me. I’ve not found one of those for Windows or Linux. Another delight is the Steam Deck, which runs games on Linux. This still blows my mind.
But truthfully, most of my computing is at work, on several Windows boxes. A laptop and a desktop for work, and a Surface tablet to watch YouTube and Netflix. You have to disable all the incessant adware that ships with Windows, which is annoying. But t works well once you do. And this situation has actually improved considerably over the last few years, no doubt prompted by several EU court cases. You can now trivially uninstall OneDrive, and it will actually honor your default Browser, for instance. All the Copilots and Cortanas and Clippys can be disabled with a toggle in settings. It’s fine now.
But OSes no longer bring me joy. They are no longer delightful. Maybe I’m getting old and jaded. I remember a time when a new OS release was exciting. Now they’re just a tool, and I mostly want them to not get in the way. Oh well.
3 Likes
Doing linux things with Linux tools is easier with wsl, but windows is still really bad. Installing software sucks, especially developer software. The settings of the OS are now spread through several apps which conflict and over write one another. Updates suck, are forced upon, restart almost every time, and are slow.
The only thing it has going for it are gamesand the fact that it can run an exe from 1996 flawlessly.
Oh and it never wants to sleep now. It wakes IP randomly and tries to set my bag on fire.
1 Like