I’ve been using RT for some time now and for Input Profile under Color Management on the Color tab I’ve been using the Option referred to as “Auto Matched Camera Profile” (AMCP). I recently acquired a new Canon EOS R (mirrorless) camera. The file extension on my raw files has changed from .CR2 to .CR3. While this is a much newer camera than the ones I’ve been using it has been around for a while ( ? years). However, when processing these newer files the AMCP option is no longer available and I am suspecting that this has degraded my development capability.
The research I’ve done suggests that it is NOT unusual that DCP Profiles furnished with the standard RT distribution are NOT all inclusive. Rawpedia describes how to obtain more up to date DCP Profiles from Adobe by obtaining/installing Adobe DNG Converter which contains the most up to date versions of these profiles. I’ve done that but Adobe seems to have these files organized a bit differently than RT. For example, it appears that Adobe uses a different folder for every camera and then includes a set of DCP Profiles for each camera. The names of the files appear to include the names of the related camera plus some appended information. The files supplied by RT do NOT include such appended information in the file names. However, RT does NOT seem to detect these files as the AMCP option remains unavailable. In order to troubleshoot the problem I looked to see what profiles within the standard RT supplied folder named dcpprofiles correspond to my other cameras where the AMCP option does seem to be working. I have cameras for which AMCP is active but where there are NO corresponding files that I can find in dcpprofiles (likewise for the folder named iccprofiles\input).
Can anyone refer me to a better explanation of how Auto Matched Camera Profile is supposed to work than what I’ve found here???
I don’t think it’s related to the DCP files…I think maybe the CR3 embedded JPG is not being accessed and so the automatch cannot be computed…if you get the Adobe DCP you should be able to use it and the tone curve embedded with it
There is a tone curve inside a DCP file, but this is unrelated to RT’s Auto Match Tone Curve function, which attempts to mimic the tone curve of the jpeg thumbnail embedded in the raw file.
That is what I was trying to say but not clearly…I think in the case of this instance that information is not being accessed from the CR3 file by RT so no option…I have no idea why or if it is just this Canon camera’s CR3 or others as well…
@afre…just suggesting an alternative for the OP and at the same time telling them likely no AMCP has nothing to do with DCP files…
I don’t think I’m talking about tone curves. On the “Color” tab there is something called “Color Management”. The alternative options, to the “Auto Matched Camera Profile” when specifying an “Input Profile” are “None”, “Use embedded profile if possible”, “Camera Standard”, and “Custom”. Availability of some, including AMCP, are conditional (i.e., only available in some circumstances). I’ve tried doing what is described here but without any success.
My question is what’s involved in making AMCP available for my new camera?
However, at this point I’m beginning to think that this is a poor choice even though it seemed to work fine with my other cameras. I have now experimented with the “Custom” option that allows me to precisely specify what profile (i.e., Adobe supplied .dcp file) is being used. I have a bunch of those for the new camera and significant differences result from specifying different files. This is beginning to make me think I should have been doing this all along and my preference for simple probably produced less than ideal results in the past.
Ya my fault…I don’t use RT that much…more often ART when not using DT. I thought you were talking about the interaction of profiles with the auto matched tone curve in the exposure section. It is normally on so selecting any of the profiles employs it if you don’t disable it.
If you use a DCP of any kind and use the tone curve part of that in color management then the auto match tone curve often ends up being almost a strait line.
So in the end you would have to try all of the options any of the profiles with or without that on to compare the resulting colors. In any case auto worked for you but now you don’t have that option.
I have always had AdobeDNG converter installed for access to the Adobe dcp files and I just use those which I think is where you are headed.
The following doesn’t answer your initial AMCP question, but it does, in a way…
Have you looked at the Dynamic Processing Profiles? This lets you set certain starting rules/defaults based on, among other things, camera brand and type.
This way you can choose your favourite profile that came with the Adobe DNG converter as a starting point. It also makes the directory/folder that this files is in the starting point, so if you want to change from your EOS R’s default, say Camera Standard.dcp to Camera Landscape v2.dcp you do not have to traverse many directories to find and set it.
I use these dynamic rules for my cameras/lenses needs and am rather happy with it.
In the dcpprofiles folder there’s a file named camera_model_aliases.json. Have you taken a look at it to see if your cameras have a diferent name, while being the same models as others with included profiles?
E.g.: the Canon EOS 700D is also known as Canon EOS Kiss X7i and Canon EOS REBEL T5i, and all of them share the same dcp profile.
from RawPedia:
RawTherapee ships multiple high-quality, custom-made, general-purpose DCP profiles that can be automatically matched when an image from a supported camera is opened.
The available profiles are found in the dcpprofiles folder in your installation directory. It is possible to add your own DCP or ICC profiles to this folder. Matching only works on the exact name of the camera (case-sensitive) as is present in the image metadata.
Which in your case, to me means:
you need a dcp profile specific for your camera model (or an alias of it): that’s where the ACR profiles come in handy
such profile must be renamed exactly the same as the metadata says that camera is named: in your case I guess it would be 'Canon EOS R` (note that it is case-sensitive, so it must be exactly the same name as shown in the metadata)
if the profile has an embedded tone curve (aka, a particular «look»), it will be applied to the image, unless you turn it off. So better you’re sure the profile you’re using gives you the desired results
next time you start RT and open a Canon EOS R image, the profile will be automatically applied
And AFAIK, the problem is CR3 metadata is not yet supported, so RT can’t read the camera name from the image metadata, thus can’t match a proper input profile, even if it is correctly named and placed in the right folder.
Until this is fixed (CR3 metadata correctly read), your best (and only) bet is using the Custom (profile) option.
Yes those look like the profiles I’m experimenting with.
Given that you seem to be more into Adobe DNG than me is it possible you know of some documentation that might, at minimum, explain what Adobe is intending the difference between such profiles to be? It looks to me like they use similar naming conventions for lots, if NOT all, cameras.
No I have NOT but your suggestion looks like an excellent one. It looks like I should be doing that, especially now that I have different cameras. My other raw producing cameras are all the same brand & model.
I think they are likely there in an attempt to mimic in camera jpg profiles with similar names. The is an Adobe profile editor that you can use to customize the curve and colors in a dcp file to make your own optimizations…you might want to check that out if you run Windows…
I had tried exactly what you mentioned by renaming one of the Adobe obtained DCP profiles to “Canon EOS R.dcp” but that was NO help.
If RT cannot process CR3 metadata that would certainly explain the problem. I haven’t yet given it much thought but it seems like that might induce other mysterious problems as well.
Looks like this makes me even more anxious for a new release of RT even though I’m NOW definitely leaning in the direction of ceasing to use the AMCP option for Input Profiles in Color Management.
If this is software kind of like Adobe DNG Converter that is both free and has limited purpose I would definitely by interested in looking into it. What is the product called?
I do engage with other photographers, who are mostly much more skilled than me, and there is a definite tendency for them to rely on Adobe products for photo processing. I happen to make use of open source software for lots of things. One of the big benefits is forums like this one. My interest in photography came about more as a result of learning how to develop the pictures than from wanting use a camera. It started with some pretty minor interests in revising existing photos and has grown considerably as I’ve learned more. I’ve now invested enough time and effort learning how to use RT as well as some other open source software that there is no interest in spending time and effort trying to learn to do the same thing with Adobe products. A long way of saying if it takes acquiring, setting up and learning Photoshop I can do without it.
It’s actually called the Adobe profile we editor. For example if you don’t like the Reds or whatever you can select them from an image or a color checker and tweak them and I think you can add up to two curves…I had a nice tutorial on it. I will dig up the link for you…I use DT more and there is no support for DCP files so I have not made much use of it myself
Here is a good explanation I am sure there are more and likely I recall a video or two…I though you could load a dcp file directly but maybe you need to create the dng as a starting point…from there you can tweak color and tone…
Based on feedback received herein I now see that the main Rawtherapee download page specifically says the following: CR3 support: image data is decoded so you can process your raw files, but metadata is not supported yet.
Looking into the tip provided herein about using “Dynamic Processing Profiles” appears to suggest that metadata is required for it to function as expected.
This is starting to look like a better approach might be to use Adobe DNG Converter to convert the raw files to .dng format for use by RT. Of course the downside of that would be other issues associated with RT support for .dng files, which I’d know nothing about. Opinions from those with knowledge about RT for .dng files would be welcome. Any takers?
