There have been some mentions of the Zone System module in this thread, specifically how the Tone Equalizer isn’t really a like-for-like replacement of it. So, I did some digging in Github and found that it got deprecated because the author of Tone Equalizer (who no longer contributes to DT) just didn’t see the point to it anymore.
It was put to a vote on Github, and I don’t know who was eligible to vote, but it got pushed through with “9 for, 4 against, 7 don’t care. Motion carries.”
I prefer to interpret those results as 11 didn’t vote for it to be deprecated — which is a majority!
I’m joking of course, but I was a fan of many aspects of it, and I’d love to have an updated version of it back as an alternative to Tone Equalizer.
-Does anyone else feel the same?
-What were your thoughts on it?
-What do you think would need doing to it to make it suitable for Darktable today? (Here is a recent request about it on Github: Bring back the interface of the zone-system · Issue #18642 · darktable-org/darktable · GitHub, where it is mentioned that it might need to be rebuilt from scratch)
As a reminder, here is a screenshot of it in action. I particularly liked the way you could hover any of the zones to see what areas of the image were affected.
While it had issues with local contrast, I also liked the way you had more control over individual zones, whereas in Tone Equalizer, the curve smoothing means that several zones are always affected. Here’s a screenshot of Tone Equalizer where I just moved one node. Note how the curve has affected 4 zones:
This is the main reason why I don’t think Tone Equalizer is a replacement. It’s still an excellent tool, but a different one suitable for broader changes. Personally, I would like to have both tools in our toolbox.
If you are curious enough, you might want to try LightZone, an old, but smart raw editor, that a single developer with limited time is still trying to keep alive.
I must admit, I’d forgotten about that little workaround. I’ll have another play with it.
But I’m also interested in a full resurrection with it updated to scene-referred if that’s possible. I’m just wondering if there’s any interest in it at all. I know a couple of the devs on Github quite liked it.
I thought the interface was novel and I used it when darktable was display ref’d only and I remember liking it. Not sure if I’d use it over tone eq at this point, but I’d give it a go.
Yes i liked the UI as being very intuitive to me being old-school and loving Ansel A. BUT it’s simply too prone to artifacts so i fully agreed on “let’s deprecate” and still do. (module color space being the first issue)
We simply have other/better ways to distribute “brightness” or whatever you name it.
Personally i think TE is rock-stable with almost no artifacts and predictable results. (Some minor UI issues left out). So - if someone is doing a rgb-zone module with results at least as good as we have it with TE - i certainly would appreciate that. But as we have an excellent tool i don’t see anyone spending a lot of time on it
I too think TE is a great tool, and I wouldn’t want to see it gone or replaced. But for me it doesn’t replace Zone System because it doesn’t offer the same fine control. The best workaround for the Zone System would be something like multiple instances of Exposure with parametric masks, but that’s cumbersome.
I’ve mentioned before in the other thread that Tone Equalizer is somewhat divisive because it’s the only tool in its category, whereas we have multiple options for colour grading, sharpening, denoising, tone mapping, etc. So I think there’s room for two in this dodging/burning category. Obviously I’m just hoping someone has the motivation to do it because I can’t myself. Maybe when I’m retired I can teach myself.
It might seem appealing because of the UI and the visual cues but in the example you show the sky is severely banded and I am not sure that this is not a common occurrance with that module. That doesn’t mean that of course if could not be improved upon
I recall there were some presets at one point that someone shared…I think they were 0.3 0.7 and 1.0 EV plus and minus with a parametric and drawn mask in the preset and the mode was set to input before blur and about 130 percent feathering… I think I recall trying them and I was actually surprised how well it worked
Ah okay but now then it sort of shows me banding thats not there but just a reference so if in that case would I have to adjust those three zones in the sky and do I just do it by eye as there is not a blurred mask to show the blending…its been so long since I used that module and I have to admit I only ever played with it and never used it in earnest… so I would have to go back and play with it…
Yes, but as per my previous comment, it gets cumbersome if you want up to 8 instances to match Zone System / Tone Equalizer.
But you’re right, it’s an option.
That screenshot I posted just shows a preview of the zones. It’s not the actual image. But the module was not great when it came to preserving contrast, and definitely had major issues. It’s more the UI and features that I want back.
Ya I was’nt suggesting that is was the image just that if you had such sharp transitions in the zones then the changes would likely break the image but as @paperdigits notes its just for reference more than masking…
I downloaded the style that @danny posted and have been having a little play with it on Kofa’s dev build. It works surprisingly well on some images that have flatter tonal ranges (like misty mountains), but starts to struggle on images with lots of detail, as you would expect with a module that doesn’t really preserve detail.
It’s a bit like Color Lookup Table in that it has really cool features, but you can only make small adjustments with it.
The method of adjusting zones takes some getting used to, but I really like the visual feedback it provides, and as already mentioned, it allows for finer control of each zone.
What I envisioned at some point during the other discussion was this:
A module with three operating modes, simple shadows & highlights, zone system or a tone curve. Each of these do the same thing behind the scenes, they are just different UIs to produce a curve. Then in a second step, this curve would be applied to the image using a guided filter, which would re-use most of the tone-equalizer logic.
This would have been a big project for me and after the discussion in the other thread, I am not very motivated to put months of my spare time into such an endeavour.
I could however still imagine contributing to a team effort, if multiple developers wanted to build something like this.
