Article about Krita in c't

Hi

In the newest issue of c’t there is a special about open source business concepts. One of the articles is about Krita (https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2020/1/1577476236729563). I just read it. It is a history of Krita which is actually art history. In particular, I found two things very interesting.

  1. There is little information about the drawbacks and the actual (financial?) success of the Krita project/business model. I think they also have debts, haven’t they? Nevertheless, it is probably a fact that Krita is a very successful and excellent program and got very many new users during the last years. Btw, It can also be used for editing photos.

  2. Apparently, Krita has more than 1 female developer, and that might be the reason for the fact that Krita has about 25% female users. Apparently, Rempt wanted more (female) users. (I think there are devs here who think that open source graphics software have too few female users. I think the theoretical potential might be up to 33% if we see things not from the technical but from the artistic perspective).

Any other (critical) thoughts and remarks about the article?

Regards

Anna

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The article is not completely free :frowning:

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What is your opinion about selling open source software in the Windows store?

I’m absolutely fine with selling open source software, as long as it is ok with the license.

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Ok. Because some licenses explicitly forbid selling the software.

You are aware it is the Krita team selling it to fund development of Krita?

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Are you asking me? Yes I know that. So why are other dev teams not selling their software in the Windows store?

Yes 2 out of the 5 paid devs are female. If you take a look at the photo in the end of the sprint report almost of the half of the devs/artists are females, :upside_down_face:

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That is a matter of preference, not only in Windows Store, Krita is also being sold in Steam Store for both Windows and Linux. :slight_smile:

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Yea, but I think the important code is written by Boudewijn and Dimitri. However, Keywan also writes that Boudewijn Rempts wife plays an important role. Is she also a developer?
What about the dev’s daughters?

No, neither Boud’s wife (Irina) nor any of his daughters is a Krita Developer. Though Irina manages a lot of stuff like interviews, the mastodon account and sometimes twitter too.

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Actually I was thinking about other devs’ daughters. Are there any? Can they code?

I wont answer that, sorry.

I think every code is important. And everyone’s contribution is really important in Krita. Our female team does some of the heavy lifting on par and sometime even more than the male devs.

They also don’t restrict themselves to just coding, our documentation was mostly written by a female dev, our user support is mostly handled by females. So their contribution is really much more.

Over past 5-6 years of my interaction and participation with the Krita community, I have not yet experienced any gender related issue or biased talk. gender doesn’t really matter in Krita team, it doesn’t even come to anyone’s mind when talking or doing work. Probably this is the reason females feel more comfortable working with us. We are just a bunch of humans passionate about Krita.

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Not only that, along with the paid devs, there are female volunteer devs who worked and still work on some critical parts of the program.

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No, Krita has no debts. Why would it? The sane approach is more money => more developers, not the other way around.

@betazoid In general, if you’re interested in specific aspects of Krita’s development, it’s best to ask us directly - you can hop on IRC (#krita on Freenode), or ask on krita-artists .org or the KDE subforum: https://forum.kde.org/viewforum.php?f=136 .

I am writing a blog post about Krita’s development, actually, I even made an attempt to gather some community input to be able to write more about popular misconceptions about Krita and Krita development: https://krita-artists.org/t/krita-development-from-outside-how-does-it-look-like/2990 if you want, you can answer those questions in a pm to me or in the krita-artists post comment. Although from the look of it, you know basic facts, you’re just kinda confused about the idea and/or how it works out. It’s all public, of course, but things like philosophy or ideas might “get lost in translation” so even though I’m going to write this blog post - which I hope to remember to link to here, for you and all other interested - I’m (and I guess most others are) ready for questions, here or by PM, or on krita-artists, or on /r/krita on reddit, or IRC, or the KDE subforum.

The only thing is, I probably won’t touch the subject of how many females, males or any other gendered people are here in the community since it’s a secondary subject, everyone is welcome no matter their gender or any other attribute (although if one just happens to be a jerk, there might be some issues…). No one is welcome more. There are strict rules on sexism and other forms of harassment though; if someone chooses to work on Krita instead of some other open source program because Krita’s community is more friendly or welcoming than other communities, that’s of course a point of pride for us (well, me. I’m writing from my own point of view), but we’re not trying to invite more of one kind of people and less of other kind of people. Questions about daughters of the developers seem even a bit invading. No matter what career they chose to pursuit (if they’re even of age to make such choices!), their choice is valid. [That was of course from my personal standpoint as a Krita developer and previously a volunteer].

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No, Krita has no debts. Why would it? The sane approach is more money => more developers, not the other way around.

In 2017 the Krita Foundation had trouble with the Dutch tax authorities.
https://krita.org/en/item/krita-foundation-in-trouble/
But that was already solved a day later:
https://krita.org/en/item/krita-foundation-update/

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I just thought that daughters of developers who like their profession should be the best potential female developers. How else would a woman/girl have the idea to become a developer? I don’t know, maybe there is no connection here at all. Or is having more female developers not even desirable? Of course nobody can be forced to be a developer or anything else they do not want to be.
Anyway I was speaking in general terms, not about certain people.

  • Maybe because she likes computer science?
  • Maybe she was an user who can do programming and started fixing things in her favorite software? And grew into a programmer that way.

Just to name a few. I am honestly shocked by your statement.

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Short answer: basically the same way that a man/boy get an idea to become a developer. They learn about the possibility and decide to give it a try :wink:

There are different ways. I for example read this very popular in my country book series for teenagers (now it’s a mandatory reading in schools) that had one of the main characters being a genius of computer science and IT - there was another, who was a genius in robotics, so I thought about robotics, too, cause it really seemed fun. Besides, I’m an adult now, but when I was in kindergarten, long time ago, I was learning “programming for kids” with Logo (Imagine). There were even some contests I wanted to participate in because of how much fun would moving this turtle be. In high school I had c++ programming. Now there is even more push for kids to learn programming than it was before, so there is just nearly no way for a kid to not touch it at some point - I know even my humanist/non-technical friends (like a friend who is an artist and was never ever interested in this kind of science) who touched programming and know the basics because they just had to at some point in their lives.

Also in my faculty in uni there were (mainly) two directions: computer science and Mathematics. Computer science has like 10-15% of women, while Mathematics had >50% of women (most probably because Math or Physics seem like a “safe” choice for someone who likes science but is unsure about technological/engineering career). And there is this little thing that while Math students can easily get a job after the full studies, no one will hire them after two years of uni and they all need getting a “practice” outside of uni (it could be internship or some science project). Since they need to learn programming in first two years, they often decide to get a programming internship since it’s “close enough” and the faculty accepts it (and it’s entirely possible to get a programming internship with little experience). Some of them might like it more than various other jobs that are possible after the Math course.

Also, a twist: the maintainer of Krita, Boud, is a linguist by education. How did he get an idea to become a developer? :wink:

I think it would be just fine to make sure that (1) the environment is safe, friendly and there is no prejudice, cause nobody would want to stay somewhere where they feel miserable; and (2) that girls and women of the world know that it’s a valid choice of career for them. Ad (1), I’ve seen myself a conversation in a chat of another open source project, it was something like: “We need more ladies here”, “Even if I were a lady, I wouldn’t admit it here”, “Touche”. What does it say about the environment? And Ad (2), both showing women who are already in tech careers and successful, and making programs for girls and women interested in tech etc., I think it does a great deal. But also just repeating that anyone can choose any career independent of their gender (but sometimes dependent of their other attributes) would help a lot.

Oh and btw - traditionally Ada Lovelace is considered to be the first programmer. Some time later, most programmers were women. Only later men started to push out women from the programming jobs, coincidentally this job was getting better paid.

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