The manual states “Set preferences > processing > auto-apply pixel workflow defaults to “scene-referred” now”. It also states a beginner should select the preset ‘workflow: beginner’. Would it not make sense to remove all the modules from the ‘workflow: beginner’ preset that are not found in the ‘workflow: scene-referred’ preset?
The following modules are found in the ‘workflow: beginner’ that are not found in ‘workflow: scene-referred’
RGB Curve
RGB Levels
Split-Toning
Monochrome
Are there modules that replace these in the ‘workflow: scene-referred’ that are named different? Or perhaps their function/result would be better adjusted in another module that is found in the ‘workflow: scene-referred’?
Scene-referred “equivalents”:
RGB Levels → Filmic
RGB curve → Tone Equaliser
Split-Toning → Color Balance RGB
monochrome → Color Calibration
Yes maybe we should suggest the scene-referred preset instead.
I think Steve states that it does not make sense to recommend “scene referred” as a basic setup to beginners but then include modules of the legacy workflow into that preset.
But Aurelien described in his article PIXLS.US - Darktable 3:RGB or Lab? Which Modules? Help! that
- on one hand: RGB Levels and RGB Curves may be used under certain preconditions
- on the other hand Monochrome should be replaced by channel mixer or color balance e. g.
So at least the last module should not be part of that mentioned preset in my view …
I believe the new darktable users need a fighting chance while they are trying out the software. To a new darktable user, the UI containing so many modules is overwhelming. Aside from being free, the real and most important reason a new user should switch to darktable is because of the scene referred workflow. Upon download/installation, the default UI should be for new users in mind. Defaults should all be set so the new user will use a basic scene referred workflow that will result in a very quick learning curve. Potential new users should be attracted to darktable because it has a very simple/logical UI that results in a short learning curve. Current users, upon download/install, would immediately change the default to ‘advanced’.
For years, I have downloaded dt and indevoured numerous times to learn it and given up. I am well versed in all generations on Nikon’s RAW software as well as SilkyPix, DXO & Lightroom (and own). I have never read their manuals, only refer to them when in a pinch. And yet, I know dt is what I should be using. I am currently going through the dt manual page by page.
A prerequisite of dt should not be that one have a vast knowledge of RAW developing skills and vast amounts of time to invest in the learning curve.
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That’s what I thought when I bought a piano but it turns out Chopsticks isn’t a Beethoven piano concerto.
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Isn’t that (partly) what the quick access panel is for: a collection of the basic tools to get a basic development done?
Any complex tool used to deal with a complex subject will have a learning curve. The more access the tool gives to the underlying principles, the steeper the learning curve is. E.g. there’s a vast difference between text processing with Notepad, Word or LaTeX.
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Thanks
Also remember this is not written for you (us) or beginners…the developers develop tools to suit their needs and interests. When they take the time and effort to go beyond this we are lucky but this is not a product with a commercial user base…it’s a collaborative effort to create tools to edit raw images with no obligation to provide anything including a beginner mode…Infact I would go so far as to say the use of the word beginner is misleading by implying that DT is a tool for a beginner to raw image editing…without understanding digital image processing including raw camera images and the concepts of scene referred vs display referred I would respectfully submit the opposite of what you said… A prerequisite of dt should not be that one have a vast knowledge of RAW developing skills and vast amounts of time to invest in the learning curve.
This is exactly what you need to get the most out of DT…
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I never used the term beginner, it is a quote from the 3.8 manual. Just endeavouring to let the developers know, how difficult I’m finding it. I’m not looking to get the most out of dt at this time, I am a new user and that will eventually come latter.
Good suggestions but you might have trouble doing r g and b tone curves in the tone eq 
I agree…I think the term beginner is or can be misleading if it is equated with simple or easy…Compared to a lot of software across all spectrums DT is not easy. There are a lot of things to learn and remember that are just specific to DT and then you still have to learn the tools and establish your workflow… I think the words core or basic are more fitting …what do I know…
I could almost say that darktable is anything but a program for beginners . It contains a lot of technical terminology and at the same time necessary to achieve a deep knowledge of the program. I even know professionals who work in other applications, see darktable and recognize its benefits, but do not dare to take the leap to use it in their daily work environments, some because of the fact to adapt their knowledge previously acquired in other applications to the methodology of work of darktable and others because they feel good in their comfort area dominating programs where they only have to move sliders from one side to another and do their magic without worrying about what really happens behind the interface.
However in darktable you can adjust the UI and emulate the behaviors of the tools to how many programs on the market look and work.
As you can see, most of the posts you see are: "I come from ---- app, I want to learn darktable, how can I do this here, what was I doing in the — app ?
Even those professionals never used darktable are „beginners“. So the beginners section contains also some modules that might be known from other tools.
Not necessarily. I think the real issue is that it is hard to come up with a use case for the “beginner” preset; it is not significantly less overwhelming than eg the “scene-referred” one.
I agree that since 3.6/3.8 users should just start out with scene-referred for RAW images, especially from the quick access panel, and then explore.
“Vast” is a subjective term. Some background is inevitably necessary though. You can go very far with only the following five modules (in addition to those enabled by default):
- filmic rgb
- color balance rgb
- color calibration
- crop
- rotate and perspective
- exposure
Admittedly, the first three require some investment and experimentation, but the key to using darktable efficiently is learning about masks. You can find a lot nice videos here:
Ironically LaTeX is a good example showing that a good GUI (LyX) can turn something akin to rocket science into something much more approachable and pleasant to learn.
It’s worth mentioning here that the “beginner’s guide” (which is not ever really called that in the manual) and the “workflow: beginner” preset don’t really bear any relation to each other - they were done by different people and for different reasons. The user manual suggests “workflow: scene-referred”. I do agree that the word “beginner” is troublesome, which is why I have tried to avoid it in the manual.
Perhaps we should consider removing the “beginner” preset.
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Yes. Windows and IOS are extremely complex & powerful, yet a child can be quite proficient without ever reading the manual.