Canon CR3 raw support - your move

The euphonium will be fine given enough time :smiley:

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You’ve got it, Pat. The neighbours like the euphonium. Mary next door sings with the BBC Chorus. I don’t remember her asking about CR3. However she loves Lizzie.

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You took the words out of my mouth.

Forking should be an absolute last resort. I updated exiv2 last night on my editing machine, and let me tell you, i waited like 2+ hours for everything that uses exiv2 to recompile against the new version. Exiv2 is used in all sorts of stuff; I wouldn’t even hazard a guess at how many projects use it.

Further we need developers to make a fork work in the long term. Currently the canonical exiv2 project lacks person power to get coding done. I doubt a fork would muster much momentum.

This sounds like its a people problem more than a technical one. I’ll admit I’ve lost the plot, though likely I didn’t understand it all to begin with.

We’re all in the same boat, so we need to come together to make a reasonable solution. I don’t think a fork is the solution.

So how can we work together to solve this problem? It seems to me like we need to talk to the current exiv2 team about how to incorporate the patch from Robin’s book.

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Pushing away contribs is not going to solve lack of manpower. darktable got a ton of new manpower just because PR started getting merged again and new things happened. It’s a momentum.

Plus, when doing politics and lobbying starts taking more energy and time than doing the code, it’s a bad sign.

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Lizzie and I don’t understand f’ing. If development and support for exiv2 lacks resources, how could multiple braches help?

My solution is to write a book which contains all my knowledge. Based on my experience of the community, there will lots of posthumous criticism and hatred.

https://clanmills.com/exiv2/book/

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So it sounds like we need legal advice, mainly about if parsing ISOBMFF infringes on any kind of patents. Reading through the 22(!) issues/bugs on the exiv2 project that concern CR3 support, it seems the code is/will be there, via @clanmills ISOBMFF which is based on the ISO standards paper.

If all we need is legal clearance to make this happen, I’m sure pixls.us could sponsor that, possibly via the Software Freedom Conservancy. Right, @patdavid?

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Pat: I don’t believe we need legal advice, although I have offered to get help. I delivered on a legal challenge concerning the Exiv2 Commercial Licsene.

Dan and Jens are being obstructive and neither made any constructive contribution to Exiv2 v0.27.3

I have also received many private emails which say “you’re OK”. Of course, Dan and Jens will say say “This hasn’t been tested in court!” It hasn’t been tested because it’s legal!

I’m out of here. I can’t endure any more obstruction.

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Honestly, I don’t think a fork is the optimum answer here either. But from what Robin says, it sounds like there is an absolute impasse.

I am Mica. :slight_smile:

OK, I am just reading through everything for the first time, trying to figure out what we can do to move forward. I don’t mean anything by it, I am just trying to summarize so I understand what is happening.

We thank you for your work!

I’d tend to agree. A user reading their own file can’t be illegal. But I am no lawyer.

I don’t think anyone here is trying to obstruct you, but you should do what is best for you, always.

One day Pat (or @paperdigits) you’ll come to visit us in England. We’re about 20 miles from Heathrow Airport in the beautiful County of Surrey. Let’s agree to never discuss Exiv2. Exiv2 is history and not worthy of discussion.

@clanmills Would Lizzie be okay if you shared a photo of her? I know it is off topic and all…


It seems Canon doesn’t move on what people say or do. It is a boon for projects like Magic Lantern.

I recall reading that when the 1Dx came out they told Magic Lantern in no uncertain terms not to touch the 1D series (unspoken reading: don’t turn it into the twice-as-expensive 1Dc).

I will defer to your good memory. :blush:

Just a note - I offered to sponsor (at least EU based in PL) legal advice concerning this and got reply from law advisor that doing CR3 reader in Exiv2 is totally OK thing to do judging from materials he read, however full legal clearance (that covers EU) would cost probably ~1k EUR or a bit more (at least from my legal advisor).

I see 2 ways which would cost absolutely nothing in legal fees for open source devs but are still very skittish about “hurr durr legal”:

  1. Canon releases NON-NDA specification for CR3 reading and just reading. It’s totally fine for us and gives full clearance to create CR3 readers. This is the OPTIMAL solution.
  2. Canon releases statement granting all open source software to either create or use already created open source reader for CR3 files and takes no responsibility for any open source reader and never guarantees any operability/feasibility etc of open source CR3 reader. That’s equivalent of Canon legally saying “Do your own CR3 reader, we don’t care”. That’s sub optimal because it requires loads of guesswork (that is mainly already done).

Any such statement would officially shut naysayers the hell up and be fine AF for my taste.

If no such document/statement comes from Canon I suggest devs (if possible) to use Robin’s book (or other people’s work as a base) and do PR to Exiv2 after getting a legal advice from legal advisor (check your location, some legal advisors offer discounts for open source devs!) and add legal notice to your PR that you sought legal advice and quote the legal advisor’s response :slight_smile: If I’d have time to do so that’s what I’d do :slight_smile:

I don’t think I can paste a photo of Lizzie here. She’s in the photo on page 2 of the book. Please have a little read at the prolog to chapter 13 in my book. You may be surprised to hear what goes on when you maintain an open-source project. IMaEA

My son is a IT Development Manager and delivered the review “That’s not what Project Management is about.”. However he didn’t explain what it is about. One of my Adobe buddies said: "Your son read that chapter from the view of a project manager or delivery manager. But it was written by an author of software. I wish, both sides would understand each other better. ". I asked “What is a delivery manager” and he didn’t reply either.

So, there we have it. After 12 years and at least 12,000 hours of effort, it’s time for me to finish the book and retire. There have been some fun times along the road. We enjoyed Tuan’s and Alice’s wedding in Vietnam in 2017. Tuan was a GSoC student in 2012. And I hope to give a talk about the book at LGM in Rennes in 2021. If somebody in the community will takes on the maintenance of Exiv2, they can be 100% certain of my support and cooperation.

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Was hoping for more but the weather is nice so I will go outside. :cat2:

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@clanmills From the time we met on LGM London I still have your business card in my wallet. It will stay there forever :+1: for your foss work

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Also very very sorry to hear that. This is not what the open source world was meant to be.

Luckily my open source project is less popular and needed…

Sounds attractive when I retire at 70 in 10 years time :grinning:

In the meantime let me buy you a beer in a pub any time soon now - if it is up to me.