Compiling darktable .dmg: A bump in the tracks

Big Brutha was keeping you from the Truth. This is why I only reveal my secrets to the Duck.

Didn’t mean to imply that you’re a near-imbecile as I am when it comes to this stuff, Bram. Sorry! Nevertheless, I’m sure that having another stumbler-in-the-dark working on this will eventually lead to a resolution :crazy_face:

As always, it’s not only the initial step that needs to be done, we also need someone to maintain it afterwards. Bringing food down, making sure the toilet gets cleaned every now and then, …

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Okay. How do we climb aboard this bandwagon?

If we have a few like-minded individuals perhaps we can create a team of Maintainers. One member could be designated the Grand PooBah whose responsibility it is to publish the Disk Image. The other members would be listed hierarchically. In the event of the Big Kahuna being unavailable (ill, over-worked, hung-over, abducted by Aliens, etc.), the next member on the list temporarily assumes control. This means that just as poo runs downhill, so would the task of getting a workable dmg out to the masses in a timely manner.

If the current Mac OS Packaging Guru is fed-up and wants to be absolved of this responsibility, it could be transferred effectively. Much better than letting the (gift) horse wildly careen the wagon through the streets without proper direction! :racehorse:
And, of course, it would be much better than simply leaving the (gift) horse unattended as it appears to be now so that it does nobody any good.

It seems to me that there are three reasons one would develop and offer an application like darkroom:

  1. to contribute technology to the photographer community

  2. to develop technology as a means to demonstrate one’s chops to potential employers and/or funders

  3. to develop technology, in bits and pieces, in participation with a clique of like minded technicians, as a hobby

Perhaps the darktable development falls into each of these categories, to a greater or lessor extent. However, the fact that resources do not seem to exist to simply publish a .dmg does not make me feel comfortable investing my time working with the program. Put another way, why develop a piece of software that others are not able to use? Or, why release it if it is not going to be available on the platforms reported as supported?

I am not a programmer, God help me, but is seems like writing the code to make darktable do its thing is much more difficult than porting it to a .dmg…

Free Software is developed by a community of developers and users. It is a lot of work to maintain and add features to the source code. Add on to that the macOS is a pay-for platform, where you can’t even sign a dmg without forking over money to apple, and you may have part of your answer.

The other answer is that not enough macOS users are involved. The reason there are linux and windows builds are because people using those platforms (or distros) package and build darktable.

Start doing the work. You feel the build instructions need to be updated, that is a great place to start.

I wouldn’t add more work to the process (setting up a “maintainer” team) before you actually have a dmg release. Not a lot of people are working on this it seems, so time would be better spent finding the people who are working on it (parafin in #darktable on freenode IRC) and politely asking him/her what the blockers for a 2.4.0 release on macOS is, then working with him/her to resolve those issues.

This kind of hyperbole is getting old in this thread. People have lives and get busy.

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No kidding, Mica. But what is actually “getting old” is the sheer arrogance and perhaps a bit of “nerd’s revenge” foisted upon those who clearly wish to help.

If this is the community to which I’ve volunteered my services (a number of times now), I regretfully want nothing to do with it and thereby rescind my offer. I’ll simply wait until somebody is shamed enough into finally doing what they had committed to do. To that particular somebody: Piss or get off of the pot. If you don’t wish to do this any longer, make your intent known! Otherwise, accept some of the help that has been repeatedly offered (although it may be too late now) :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

Thanks! That really clarifies it to me. No offense, and really no skin off your nose (so to speak) but, as a Mac user, this completely and irrevocably turns me off. The mere idea of relying on a graphics application developed with the premier graphics platform as an afterthought gives me the willies. WordPerfect and Lotus 123 for the Mac, all over again. I thought we were beyond that.

Not for me, but again, thanks for spelling it out. I invest a lot of time processing my clients images, and I need tools that are configured for the way I work. Which brings me to my motivation for exploring darktable in the first place: Lightroom and the potential cloud model. Fortunately there are other Mac friendly options out there…

I’m furious, if you can’t tell. The above is a clear example of the narcissistic arrogance of which I wrote. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This nonsensical edict is about as logical as demanding somebody to just write the recipe for the cake which they’ve stated they’re having trouble baking.

You’re welcome! As a note, version 2.2.5 is still available, and while I understand why you’d want the newest, version 2.2.5 works well, I’m using fairly regularly.

I’m sure we’ll get a 2.4.0 release sometime!

There have been many applications whos mac implementation has been lacking, but for Lotus and WordPerfect, it was someone’s job to make those things work and money was exchanged at least in part so that the application would work.

With darktable, there is no money and the person doing the work is doing it because they want to, not because they’re paid to do it. That person isn’t paid at all.

Glad you at least checked it out and considered as an option. Perhaps in the future, if/when there is more mac inertia, you can consider it again.

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I understood the instructions, I just don’t have the time or the money to build and distribute the dmg. You figured out how to build dt, and thus you know what in the instructions are lacking. You should update them.

It is incumbent upon you to involve yourself in the community. Nobody is forcing your hand.

Everyone gives their best effort according to their free time. The commitment is do what you can when you can.

The macOS builder doesn’t owe anyone anything, not a statement of intent, a dmg, patches to make it work, nothing.

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I just wanted to report to the community that one of the hosts of one of the biggest German photo podcasts (happyshooting) reported in the last episode that he tried dt on his apple computer. It’s part of checking different software to replace lightroom. He was not very satisfied but the report was not “aggressive”. The three main drawbacks he mentioned were IIRC the unavailability of the current versions mac image, the speed (with and without opencl) and not being able to change panel size by dragging. Just FYI, I am on Linux ans don’t have these issues (ok, speed …, but I am happy the panels don’t move when touched with the mouse).

Why this cannot penetrate the obstinate cerebrum of a certain individual is incredible. Open your blinkered eyes; the above is exactly why offers of help have repeatedly been made not only by me but also by others in this thread. Alas, contrary to what is implied on the surface, you as the self-anointed spokesperson, make it clear that this rarified club rather wishes to keep its doors closed to Outsiders.

I stand by my comment of “nerd’s revenge”. By such comments, you alienate so many people and perpetuate the fundamental issues described herein.

Please calm down @everyone :cry:. https://discuss.pixls.us/faq

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I humbly apologise for losing my cool :anguished:

Hopefully this sacrifice of self-respect will spur productive discussions concerning the tenuous relationship between Those Who Can Code and Those Who Cannot. Not everybody in the latter group is here to simply “take”! However, when this is ignored by members of the former and some of us in the latter group are only patronised with unhelpful condescending quips, tempers will inevitably flare. Furthermore, it’s self-defeating; alienation will only result in isolation as those who would have wanted to assist are driven away. And, the “stupid questions” to what is “patently obvious!” (sic) will continue to be posed and thus frustrate the incumbent Coders.

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Hi everyone!

Let’s take a deep breath. Breathe.

I understand there’s frustrations, and they can be maddening. However, please keep in mind that we’re all here because we want to be. I am sure the offer to help is greatly appreciated, @Hevii_Guy, but I don’t know if there’s a need to continue berating folks about it. If there’s interest then the relevant folks will step forward I’m sure and take the offer.

Compiling software as complex as these projects can be time-consuming and prone to errors, but the best way to hopefully get to an answer is carefully describing the problem and realizing that those stepping forward to help are genuinely interested in helping.

Please keep things civil, as @afre already mentioned.

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I agree - no one should be too strident here. When I saw the comment about developing darktable on linux, I immediately saw this for what it is: a hobbyist site. darktable will never be a commercial application, even as freeware. This is not a situation where a few dedicated developers are working, in the time they can scratch out, to develop an app that will move the needle. This is a situation where a group of technicians contribute, in their free time, as they feel like it, and are so compelled. Not this week? OK, maybe next week. No deadline, no timetable, no incentives, no plan. Its not Google. I would bet that many of these guys have not even met each other.

All this is fine. It is what it is. Something to fool around with, appreciate or be frustrated, then back to the real world. All good.

Exactly. You should just use something else.

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And yet, your tone doesn’t sound exactly melodic to my ears…

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This is quite a bit of passive-aggressiveness to pack into a single post. I don’t particularly appreciate the injection of this style of negativity in the conversation that literally does nothing to move the discourse forward in any meaningful way. Please refrain from this in the future here.

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Actually, I was not trying to be subtle. I was trying to be kind.

And who are you, anyway? A developer? A moderator? Or simply an over-sensitive soul with not much better to do?

Want to move the discourse forward? Then add something to it, if you can, instead of trying to interpret the posts of others.