Darktable 3.6, simple working instructions needed

s7habo · July 27, 2021, 4:35pm

You don’t need to be afraid, filmic will play a very small role in the processing.

Interestingly, my experience has shown that a large part of the people I have dealt with who have difficulties with Filmic - I know that sounds a bit arrogant - have knowledge gaps in other areas and think Filmic is the problem.

s7habo · July 27, 2021, 4:39pm

Then you have to tell me how to help you, because the modules are very well described in the documentation. I mean, I can’t explain them any better.

paperdigits · July 27, 2021, 4:45pm

I linked the relevant manual section very early on in the thread. You’ve complained that it is too abstract, but the section I linked is literally numbered steps. Again I implore you to read this section.

priort · July 27, 2021, 4:47pm

This is a key point and filmic often gets treated as being equivalent or superior to a base curve or starting color profile in other software so people try to keep tweaking it to get something similar when this is not exactly what it provides . As you have shown many edits can even be done perfectly well without it…I even recently blended filmic in lightness blend mode just to see what it would do and in many cases I prefer the look although I may be introducing something else…I think experimentation is really the key but some basic understanding of the color science and the math is very useful…

priort · July 27, 2021, 4:51pm

reverse multiply is still there…all reverse modes are invoked using the small icon to the right of the blend mode selected… this and other new features are documented here…I think a German translation is available?? darktable 3.6: Summer Release 2021 | darktable

priort · July 27, 2021, 5:03pm

https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/3.6/en/guides-tutorials/other-resources/

In addition (pick your level and presenter) for a range of content and presenter style check out these…

Frank Walsh
https://www.youtube.com/c/FrankWalsh/videos
Stefano
https://www.youtube.com/user/MEL365com/videos
Hal
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8CZCvZL3ic2hg074Quh2oA/videos
Nicolas
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxHYygok15XQ6bqu9FK-oCw/videos

Hardcore explanations …well worth looking at once you master some basics…
https://www.youtube.com/c/AurélienPIERREPhoto/videos

Onkel-Luecke · July 27, 2021, 5:06pm

I am very pleased that you are so persistent and want to help, but I still understand too little to ask concrete questions.
Today I have again spent the whole day with 3.6, without it having brought me further. I have no more strength and it is very difficult for me to learn, understand and connect so much at once.

priort · July 27, 2021, 5:16pm

Hang in there you will win in the end…

s7habo · July 27, 2021, 5:22pm

Ok. Then take your time, and if you have need help/have questions, we are at your disposal.

MStraeten · July 27, 2021, 7:47pm

Thats a valid approach, but your issue would have been analyzed within a few posts if you just had provides a picture showing your issue and a xmp file of your usual edits.
Then it’s quite easy to reproduce and find a solution.
But it’s up to you to help the community helping you…

Matt_Maguire · July 27, 2021, 11:55pm

I’m looking at how to simplify the workflow section, and bring it up-to-date with the darktable 3.6 modules. I propose to drop the display-referred vs scene-referred discussion, and move the module non-recommended modules to an appendix. The idea is to provide a basic framework here, and possibly provide some worked examples in the Guides and Tutorials section. I would be interested to hear any feedback.

github.com

darktable-org/dtdocs/blob/620b3913fa4d7d6c9ab9d2c618ac0b610aea43a0/content/overview/workflow/edit-overview.md

---
title: "editing an image: workflow overview"
id: workflow-overview
draft: false
weight: 20
author: "people"
---

This section will guide you through the basics of developing an image in the [darkroom](../../darkroom/_index.md) view, where an arsenal of modules is at hand to help you reach your creative goals. Many other raw processing applications try to present an image approximating the jpeg file produced by the camera, however the philosophy behind darktable is to do minimal pre-processing and provide the user with a neutral image onto which they can apply their creative vision.

To begin, open an image in the darkroom by double clicking its thumbnail in the [lighttable](../../lighttable/_index.md) view. 

In the darkroom mode, you see a list of modules to the right hand side of the screen. Each module performs one processing step to bring an image from raw format into an image that can be seen on the screen or printed. The processing steps are performed in the order shown in the module list, starting at the bottom of the list and moving up to the top, like a stack of building blocks where each block builds on the processing done by the modules below. The order in which the modules are applied is important to provide a correctly processed image.

On the left-hand side, there is a history stack, which shows the order in which adjustments were made the the controls of the various modules. This allows you to undo changes by going back to an earlier step in the history stack.

# typical editing workflow

When processing an image, the order in which you adjust the module settings is not necessarily the same as the order in which the modules appear in the pixel pipe and do their work. The following diagram shows key modules in the pixel pipe that are typically involved in basic processing of an image, and underneath are numbers showing the order in which you would normally adjust the module settings.

This file has been truncated. show original

priort · July 28, 2021, 2:45am

That is clear and excellent. I really like the way you explained it. I think if there was a way to work a pair of images in to your initial description of how lightable will show images initially by default as a jpg and then it goes to the relatively “unprocessed” version you describe…This often seems to generate a lot of question with thinking that DT has done something to their images… but I really like it and i think it would be a very useful inclusion

Matt_Maguire · July 28, 2021, 4:30am

Is this what you mean? (in the actual manual, the images would be rendered smaller and place next to next other in a single row).

github.com

darktable-org/dtdocs/blob/35c867950d78c2b5a8875fa4a3918f79ce8934fb/content/overview/workflow/edit-overview.md

---
title: "editing an image: workflow overview"
id: workflow-overview
draft: false
weight: 20
author: "people"
---

This section will guide you through the basics of developing an image in the [darkroom](../../darkroom/_index.md) view, where an arsenal of modules is at hand to help you reach your creative goals. Many other raw processing applications try to present an image approximating the jpeg file produced by the camera, however the philosophy behind darktable is to do minimal pre-processing and provide the user with a neutral image onto which they can apply their creative vision.

As an example, see the 3 images below. The first image is the JPEG file produced by the camera. The second image is a raw file opened by darktable, with just the default modules applied -- notice how the image looks somewhat flat and neutral. The third image is the sort of image you might get by following the steps in this workflow page.

![edit-overview_ooc](./edit-overview/edit-overview_ooc.jpg#w33#inline)
![edit-overview_flat](./edit-overview/edit-overview_flat.jpg#w33#inline)
![edit-overview_edited](./edit-overview/edit-overview_edited.jpg#w33#inline)


To begin editing an image, open it in the darkroom by double clicking its thumbnail in the [lighttable](../../lighttable/_index.md) view. 

In the darkroom mode, you see a list of modules to the right hand side of the screen. Each module performs one processing step to bring an image from raw format into an image that can be seen on the screen or printed. The processing steps are performed in the order shown in the module list, starting at the bottom of the list and moving up to the top, like a stack of building blocks where each block builds on the processing done by the modules below. The order in which the modules are applied is important to provide a correctly processed image.

This file has been truncated. show original

Phil_Smith · July 28, 2021, 9:21am

I like this step by step approach, it’s very clear and there is just enough description behind each point.

In the filmic RGB point you mention the white auto picker but not the black.

I know using the black auto picker isn’t as reliable as the white auto picker due to noise, so do you think new users will use the black auto picker, assume it works as well as the white auto picker, then be disappointed with the results ?

I’m unsure how to get the point across that the black auto picker may not work well, even if there is pure black in the image.

priort · July 28, 2021, 5:03pm

This is nice Matt I had been thinking more about how the lightroom preview is by default the jpg preview and the change in the image on the shift to darkroom view concerns many and leads them to think some thing is wrong. I think your images are great as is this add on…if it could be worked in that DT will initially preview images to appear as shown in figure 1 but will open and present as the raw file as shown in Figure 2 when you first go to darkroom and there after it might then be a clear description of the initial presentation and handling of images in the basic DT workflow…not sure of the wording but that is what I was thinking…its a very nice little breakdown I like how it is presented…

Matt_Maguire · July 29, 2021, 11:10am

Thanks Todd. I added a remark to that effect, although I want to be careful not to get too bogged down in this overview section, and so I didn’t link this to the corresponding option in the preferences section.

Next step will be for @elstoc to review the PR and provide his view. If anyone has any further suggestions, feel free to write a comment on the PR.

priort · July 29, 2021, 12:35pm

For sure you don’t want to make it too involved and lose or get side tracked from the clear and concise workflow message…

Onkel-Luecke · August 1, 2021, 5:10pm

Matt_Maguire:

darktable-org/dtdocs/blob/620b3913fa4d7d6c9ab9d2c618ac0b610aea43a0/content/overview/workflow/edit-overview.md
---
title: "editing an image: workflow overview"
id: workflow-overview
draft: false
weight: 20
author: "people"

Thank you very much for this, it is very helpful for me and exactly what I was looking for!
Please don’t think it’s ignorance, but I’m working less intensively on it now because it’s still quite difficult for me, especially with the English manual. I now occasionally practise with 3.6, but I will probably not change all the work until there is a German manual.
@all:
I’m trying to learn more, but it takes a lot of time, it’s very difficult for me and I’m learning very slowly. As I make progress, I’m sure more questions will come up.
Until then, thank you so much for all your help!

betazoid · August 1, 2021, 8:40pm

There is one article in c’t which explains - among other modules - filmicrgb. It appeared almost a year ago but I think it’s not outdated yet. The title is “Landschaftsfotos optimieren mit Darktable”.
One or two weeks ago another article appeared in the computer journal Linux User about darktable 3.6. It also explains color balance rgb from a practical viewpoint.
I don’t want to link them here because they are behind a paywall. But at least the newer artice is not expensive I think.

elGordo · August 4, 2021, 3:16am

Excellent work, Matt. Very clearly expressed, and concisely includes the motivation for each module.