Darktable 3.6, simple working instructions needed

I’m glad you’re watching my videos, but I won’t recommend them for learning, because some steps are not self-explanatory, that is, it isnt always understandable why I did them. Besides, just in this video I also used techniques that can not be reproduced in darktable 3.6/3.7, because in the meantime the modules have changed.

As tutorials are much better suited videos from:

Anyway, if you have any questions, I’ll be happy to answer them.

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Thank you for mentioning this now. I come to the same conclusion, after I have thoroughly analyzed the video now.
It would be nice, if you could recommend me a specific video to my problem, before I waste so much time again.

For contrast alone there are no videos (at least I haven’t found any) which is understandable because on the one hand contrast is always context related and on the other hand, darktable offer different ways to handle contrast.

The best way to do this is with a concrete example. I would rather look at one of your raw photos to judge how to proceed.

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I think you are selling yourself short on this one. You go in to preferences to show the workflow settings and you do a nice scene referred edit. Certainly maybe not for a beginner to learn from but to see the process and then go back and investigate each of these steps to understand its perfect IMO. I think the way you used the color balance translates easily to the new color balance module and perhaps instead of color zones you might now use the color balance module instead but really it is all very close for me as to what you would do in 3.6 including all the basic steps and broken down in logical groupings with your titles…so it may not be a beginner tutorial…there are lots of those out there but at the same time this video conveys the DT philosophy and workflow with all the basic key elements invoked so I beg to disagree with you its a very good demonstration of scene referred editing in DT IMO…

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I totally disagree about wasted time…if you can’t watch that a couple of times with a few other basic videos and take something valuable away then I think maybe rethink DT…Boris invokes a few module features that a beginner might not do at first but nothing too dramatic. It might not be a bulk workflow video but its a pretty standard set of modules for a DT edit just with Boris’s creative touch and application…

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For this we need an image. Also keep in mind DT is scene referred driven so many of the tools have a fulcrum to define the mid point (not using the traditional 0-100 for a tonal range)…contrast will then darken and lighten based on that …scene referred masks have a fulcrum to partition the effect… It will be likely that you will have to experiment with several tools and come up with the look that works for you either in a single module or a combination of modules… For example I often use the tone curve module with no correction added and then blend it in subtract at 5-20 % opacity …this give a certain look of contrast and dehazing but it doesn’t always work…there are lots of tools in DT but there are still standard tone curve which many people use and they are common to almost all image editors so maybe this would be a good option…in the end if you provide one or two images then you should get some good feedback…

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There is a lot of knowledge missing in between, which is not so easy to understand if you don’t know the basic structure and philosophy of darktable. Some people who have been working with darktable for years don’t really understand the module order or even the basics of what three color channels are (I didn’t have that with darktable, but in a GIMP course with people who have been using Photoshop for years), let alone the theory behind it… Of course, you can learn this laboriously by documentation, but if you have no success with the first steps, the threshold to deal with it will be accordingly quite high.

My approach is to explain the first steps to the people on the basis of their examples, which increases the motivation to deal with the subject, because you have mastered the first steps and get good results for some photos first.

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I analyzed the video thoroughly, wrote everything down carefully, and reworked as much as possible in DT3.6.
Some functions are missing (e.g. multiply reverse), other modules are completely different, e.g. Tone EQ, color calibration, shadow + contrast, so that the operation is not transferable for me.
I have read the manual, the theory is also understandable and plausible, but for me the arc to the practical application is missing, I can not do it alone.

An important problem is probably filmic rgb, as long as I don’t find an understandable manual or video for it, everything else is useless.

I agree, but I find people just want answers how to make their picture better or the way they want in darktable and they want a “workflow”. That is not going to fly in darktable. There is a ton of experimentation required to bend the tools to do what you need and there is not a clear answer for many things right out of the gate and certainly not from any one tutorial as you mention about contrast…Define contrast…local?? global?? OKay then what tools can lighten and darken areas and how can you control them to introduce contrast…The answer is many tools but then maybe you need to learn how to mask and use blending modes to implement these etc etc… So maybe the quick answer for a beginner would be to try to achieve it all in local contrast. That would be limiting but maybe a starting point for a new person. It could be a simple request for contrast but maybe its really the need for dodging and burning ??? That could be with the tone eq or some people don’t like that so they use masks and exposure instances… I guess as you say an image is really the best way to target this as it really is hard to direct someone to a destination when there are many paths you can take largely guided in the end by a high degree of personal preference and comfort with a particular approach…

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I don’t think it will help me to work on a concrete picture here, I would first have to understand the modules better.

You don’t need to be afraid, filmic will play a very small role in the processing.

Interestingly, my experience has shown that a large part of the people I have dealt with who have difficulties with Filmic - I know that sounds a bit arrogant - have knowledge gaps in other areas and think Filmic is the problem.

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Then you have to tell me how to help you, because the modules are very well described in the documentation. I mean, I can’t explain them any better.

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I linked the relevant manual section very early on in the thread. You’ve complained that it is too abstract, but the section I linked is literally numbered steps. Again I implore you to read this section.

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This is a key point and filmic often gets treated as being equivalent or superior to a base curve or starting color profile in other software so people try to keep tweaking it to get something similar when this is not exactly what it provides . As you have shown many edits can even be done perfectly well without it…I even recently blended filmic in lightness blend mode just to see what it would do and in many cases I prefer the look although I may be introducing something else…I think experimentation is really the key but some basic understanding of the color science and the math is very useful…

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reverse multiply is still there…all reverse modes are invoked using the small icon to the right of the blend mode selected… this and other new features are documented here…I think a German translation is available?? darktable 3.6: Summer Release 2021 | darktable

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https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/3.6/en/guides-tutorials/other-resources/

In addition (pick your level and presenter) for a range of content and presenter style check out these…

Frank Walsh
https://www.youtube.com/c/FrankWalsh/videos
Stefano
https://www.youtube.com/user/MEL365com/videos
Hal
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8CZCvZL3ic2hg074Quh2oA/videos
Nicolas
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxHYygok15XQ6bqu9FK-oCw/videos

Hardcore explanations …well worth looking at once you master some basics…
https://www.youtube.com/c/AurélienPIERREPhoto/videos

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I am very pleased that you are so persistent and want to help, but I still understand too little to ask concrete questions.
Today I have again spent the whole day with 3.6, without it having brought me further. I have no more strength and it is very difficult for me to learn, understand and connect so much at once.

Hang in there you will win in the end… :slight_smile:

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Ok. Then take your time, and if you have need help/have questions, we are at your disposal. :+1:

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Thats a valid approach, but your issue would have been analyzed within a few posts if you just had provides a picture showing your issue and a xmp file of your usual edits.
Then it’s quite easy to reproduce and find a solution.
But it’s up to you to help the community helping you…

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