Eggleston slideshow on lensculture - "banal bcomes menacing"

At the bottom of this LensCulture article is a slideshow of photographs by William Eggleston:

My husband sent me the link. I hadn’t ever heard of Mr. Eggleston, but here’s the Wikipedia post on him:

If any of the Eggleston photographs in the lensculture slideshow had been submitted to pixls.us for a Critique, I suspect most of us wouldn’t have had anything particularly positive to say. Or maybe you all can see something that I’m totally missing . . .

The lensculture article describes Eggleston’s photographs as capturing ". . . everyday life in the Anthropocene, an age where the banal becomes menacing . . . ".

I think I must be “tone-deaf” to whatever menace is supposed to be conveyed by the Eggleston images, which is frustrating because sometimes I do try to photograph everyday objects in a way to capture a sense of menace, but I’ve never actually succeeded. Apparently Eggleston has succeeded, but I just don’t see the “menace” that the photographs apparently convey.

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I find most of them extremely beautiful. I was going to say the McDonalds one and the blue/green buildings one were not so good. But then I had another look and saw that they are also great! The barber one however is boring. Presumably only part of the selection due to being a self portrait.

I think you are right. The writer must not have looked at the image selection. In general Eggleston does have a menacing or corrupt vibe. Every other time I’ve seen his images there’s always been a sort of David-Lynch-like unease. So I’m guessing the writer just wrote what had previously been written without seeing the work!

But man those images are great! going for another look

Edit: Lean back a bit and look from a distance and they all are amazing. Haha only now saw that the text does reference Lynch!

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Well, the author of the review is referring to the age itself. Methinks Sean feels more threatened by the layer of civilization placed upon this Earth than I. Well, the bridge in image #15 does resurrect consideration of my fear of open heights…

Bear-of-little-brain here sees in Eggleston’s images a person intent upon capturing significance in what I’ll call the ‘ordinary’ things we encounter in the constructs of man. I mean, how many of us have driven by such places as image #5 without a single thought regarding any interesting images laying therein? For me, the draw would be the colors, and once I stopped to shoot, finding an interesting arrangement in the frame.

As I travel, I’m intrigued by this layer, in all its manifestations. Large cities present great examples of great endeavors, but even rural settings provide food for thought. Driving through the country, regarding almost every homestead as the sum total of the occupants’ ambitions leads me to “what where they thinking???”

FWIW, in every implication of the acronym…

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From a technical perspective, I think the colors and shadow tonality in most of the images are beautifully rendered - look at the fifth (blue/green building) and the last two images (bridge, road) in particular. Also see the highlight rendering in images 1 (kitchen window) and 12 (phone on bed). Also the composition is excellent, especially it seems to me in photographs 1, 5, 14, 15.

Yes, exactly! We tend to look at little bitty images on the screen from only a foot or so away. Many images “change” radically when you fill the screen and view from across the room. That last image of the road especially seems to change when viewed from a distance, the composition just pops into place. Museums put a whole lot of consideration into viewing distance, lighting on the image, color of the walls, etc - it all makes a big difference.

Color, tonality, and composition no matter how excellent as judged by whatever criteria, don’t of themselves make an image beautiful/great/worth looking at.

I would ask myself “Why do I think photographs 1, 5, 14, 15 have good composition/tonality/color”? That’s not easy to articulate. And I would ask @nosle (and anyone else who has answers, insights, etc!) why some/all of Eggleston’s images are beautiful, great. We make these sorts of judgements, we have these sorts of reactions all the time, but on what basis? Is it at least partly a matter of knowing what to look for?

The “universe of images” on which my own eyes have feasted (and presumably in some way been “trained”) has primarily been older photographs and paintings that are in the public domain and so readily available on the web, along with visits to museums where mostly older art was on the walls. Works by twentieth century photographers, well, because of copyright restrictions these photographs aren’t usually available on the web, not large enough to be worth viewing. So seeing newer photographs usually requires checking a book out from the library, or going to a modern art museum, of which there might not be any close enough to visit.

Funny how today we have a huge collection of art from previous centuries available on our screens, but because of today’s copyright laws we have hardly any access to what people have done in the last 100 years.

Hmm, you both mention the fifth image, the one with the blue/green buildings, but had different initial reactions. Technical considerations aside, that’s the only image that I found appealing “straight off”, and I think the reason is simply because it reminds me of alley-ways between streets in residential areas of certain cities, places similar to where I lived and visited as a child. My response to this image, and also @ggbutcher’s response to the bridge image, are based at least in part on personal experience. Is there something “good” - maybe even some emotional content in these image that goes beyond merely personal reactions based on past experiences? I know these are difficult questions!

Do you have links to some of Eggleston’s photographs that have this menacing vibe, unease? Or maybe there is a book of his photographs that emphasizes this aspect of his images?

His perhaps most famous one.

He’s taken a few photos in his lifetime but what makes him special in my view is the amazing abstract colour compositions. They could be abstract paintings.

But they aren’t abstracts they are crops from a very real world. Elements super familiar to most people even if you’re not from southern USA.

The cover of the book is structured with colour, texture and light. But also just things.
image

The combination of visual precision and content with the capacity to stir emotion is imho a large part of what makes good art. It might not be the same emotions in everyone on every day. Some images you can look at for longer than others. What makes that the case is quite hard to pin down. Most artists struggle hard every time to pin it down, only to mostly fail.

I’m an architect and for several years I worked mainly on museums and art galleries mostly with the buildings themselves but also exhibition design.

The big thing with physical images is your ability to move in space. To take in the photo as a small thing at a distance, be able to walk up and put your nose as close to it as you dare. All these changes in perception just by moving your body, something you barely have to think about, (unless you have trouble moving that is) compared to scrolling that mouse wheel or pinching those fingers.

Most of my education and also practice has been heavily influenced by artists and architects who can really see the everyday. So I’m a bit biased in my liking for this kind of stuff :wink: stockholm syndrome I can’t turn against it with all the time I’ve invested.

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Another that I would argue is his most famous image (apologies to @nosle’s choice):

There’s a few things that strike me immediately when considering this work. First of is his usual lack of people in the images. They are there for some, but for the most part the scene is a shadow of the world that is meant to be occupied. That there is nobody in the frame gives me pause in many instances (the tabletop condiments #2 from your slideshow link) is an example of this. There are only four photographs with any people at all in them (and only the selfie and the bus have more than a single person in them). In each case these scenes are often ones where we’d expect a wealth of life and bustling happening around them, but in these images it’s lacking. No noise, smells, sounds, bustling life that to us normally make these views mundane. Remove that and I think we mentally process it as missing something. Some… life. This could possibly be the source of the menace alluded to?

In many of these I can’t help but notice just how important color is to the impact of the images. Try desaturating some of these and they start to lose something (particularly the signs on the road, and the mcdonalds red/yellow juxtaposition with the hallmark store next door).

I also tend to view the images in a similar vein to Edward Hopper, but in photographic form. Which is nice, because I like Hoppers paintings quite a bit. :slight_smile:

[edit]

I seem to remember someone entering one of Henrier Cartier-Bresson’s photos to a Flickr critique group where it didn’t get the best response… :wink: (found a post about it! Why You Shouldn't Give Too Much Weight to Anonymous Online Critics | PetaPixel)

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I can’t see any menace either. To me they are pretty pictures with the saturation turned up here and there. They seem fairly ordinary and I guess lots of us take similar pics mainly for our own amusement. The mirror reflection reminds me of a pic I took in a cafe. When I processed it, I was pleased to see I’d accidentally captured something quite amusing, at least to me, with the woman seeming to lead the man behind, but not by the hand! Sorry to lower the tone! But if this photo had been presented in an arty exhibition themed on, say, how wrong our perceptions can be, it might not have been out of place!

Whilst here, thanks to you @Elle and @ggbutcher for the comments yesterday on unbounded processing. I have been reading up on stuff and plan to do more as time permits.

To me those images are just incredibly boring snapshots, not worth a second look. I can neither see technical not artistic merit in them. But maybe I am just an uncivilized ignorant person.

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I think you are onto something here but you need to see more of his work before we can diagnose you properly. The Eggleston test has been used since the mid 70’s to diagnose ignorance but it has been known to give false positives if the sample size is to small :wink:

edit: Seen as just images snatched from www. A random selection from millions they might seem mediocre. I could be ruined by “education” and influenced by my knowledge of his whole body of work and it’s historic role. I can’t know for sure. His influence on photography is so huge that many might take Eggleston type photos without knowing the source. It’s just part of the culture now.

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@RawConvert Your image is quite nice regardless of by what people are lead. The group of people moving in a funny way inside that ellipse.

Does the radioactive sign on the McDonald’s wall count as menace?

@nosle this made laugh, thank you.

I think this analysis of the images brings about the sense of menace. I too took a look at the article and images and on initial scroll through the photos had the same thoughts, l couldn’t see the “menace” to start with but liked what I saw, be that colour, composition or subject. However, that was in the context of a my Instagram ingrained scroll rapidly and double tap without thought.

Reading through this thread has allowed me time to think on the images as people discuss their thoughts, this allowed my mind to pull loose threads of dislocated fragments of what was playing on my mind subconsciously but not having any time to allow it to manifest into anything cohesive, it just drifted in the space of undeveloped thought.

Pat’s image of the tricycle on the footpath in front of the 60’s style house brought forward classic end of the world by nuclear explosion stories, movies where the mushroom cloud rises in the background and that impending sense of the pressure wave rolling through the scene about to wipe out all humanity.

The lack of people in the images, the compositions now leave me asking, where are they?

This for me, layers that menace into the images of the mundane. Is this a person walking through all that we have built on his own asking the same question.

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No, from both a technical and artistic POV, I could agree.

From a narrative standpoint, however, these images resonate with my experience travelling through the US. In many of them are captured some sense of “improvement”, the efforts of someone trying to make things a little better. I just love the careful routing of the power cords in the red image. I, too, have a staple gun… :smiley:

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There is something very earie about the lack of peoe, the loneliness of his frames, even the selfie in the barber chair has this divorced feeling about it.

I’d have made the pink shack photo myself, and I have been influenced in my own work by him. The pallette of that photo is fantastic and soft, the tones play off one another well. The softness of the tone cits against the emptiness of it. !(Selections from William Eggleston’s Masterwork, The Democratic Forest - Photographs by William Eggleston | LensCulture)

In other frames, the hint of people are there, but they are not actually present, like this one:

!(Selections from William Eggleston’s Masterwork, The Democratic Forest - Photographs by William Eggleston | LensCulture)

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Before I share my impressions, I would first like to thank @Elle (actually her husband) for bringing this to our attention. Although I am not an artist, photographer, critic, etc., I do see merit to the collection. I won’t be bringing up any comparisons or references; I will just use plain words as I always do IRL anyway.

I did enjoy perusing the slideshow. Immediately jumping out to me were the lines, shapes and shadows, and waxy colors and textures. Sorry, waxy is the best I can do :blush:. It reminds me of the uncanny sculptures in a wax museum, though I haven’t been to one. They are lifelike yet very much devoid of it – artificial, ephemeral yet imposing in a banal way. I certainly wouldn’t want my laptop or a family member to be made of wax :sweat_smile:. I’m melting! — oops, no references!

Under the banal, there are always the shadows, lines and shapes that are in your peripheral vision. That move. That linger. That are there and gone, and back again when you aren’t looking. Brooding. Sounds like a line from a suspense or fantasy novel. Seriously, take a look at all of the images. The lines and shapes are less obvious than the shadows but, between them, in the negative spaces, there are entities that flow in often menacing, or at least furtive, ways.

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The point you make about the lack of people, that seems important, one doesn’t get “no people” in urban scenes just by accident. As noted by @plaven - the lack of people - including in the bicycle image - brings up scenes from all the disaster movies that have been made over the last couple of decades. The low angle of the bicycle image is a classic angle used in horror movies to convey “menace” and “not normal”, possibly effective because it’s the angle from which we viewed the world as infants and toddlers?

It turns out I’d seen both examples (the bicycle and the red ceiling) of famous Eggleston photographs before, but I didn’t remember the photographer’s name or realize they were by the same person. My reaction to both photographs was pretty much the same: “That’s an ugly, pointless photograph.”, followed by “Why on earth is this considered to be an important photograph?”, followed by further examination and a growing sense of unease. I don’t know where the unease comes from.

There is a great big huge difference between viewing an actual print and viewing a digitized version of same - the way Eggleston talks about that red ceiling, it’s intensely red. I wonder how large the print is, what the surface texture looks like, what the red color really looks like, the sRGB color gamut is fairly lacking in intense red colors.

There is also a great big huge difference between images viewed in isolation and images viewed “en masse”. A long time ago I was privileged enough to view a large collection of Edvard Munch paintings in a Smithsonian museum exhibit. The paintings were arranged in long, twisting aisles. By the time I reached the end of the collection, I was somewhat ready to run screaming holding my head just as depicted in one of his more famous paintings:

Seen individually I doubt there are many of Munch’s paintings that I’d find immediately accessible. But seen all at once, the paintings formed into a whole that made a lot of sense, carried a lot of emotion, feeling, viewpoints on life that perhaps we don’t normally take notice of. Currently I’m reading a book about Munch and his paintings, and it turns out that he himself intended for many of them to be viewed as collections, and his reason for painting in the first place was to capture “emotion” - I’m using “scare quotes” because “emotion” seems like a very weak word to use in the context of Munch’s paintings.

Returning to Eggleston’s images in the lensculture slide show, I have a feeling that if a proper selection from the larger series of images, from which the slide show images were drawn, were displayed “all at once” in a museum, the effect would be considerably greater than a seemingly random, small sub-collection viewed one at a time in a slide show on a monitor screen. This is just a guess.

Like @houz I do not have much appreciation for the images in the slide show, though I’d allow that they have technical merit. Except for some reason (probably entirely idiosyncratic) I like the blue/green building image.

Also I agree with @paperdigits - the colors in the pink shack photo are totally appealing. For me, the trash cans in the pink shack photo send the image as a whole directly into the realm of “not comfortable to view” as the trash cans are very ugly. Plus the whole image is tilted, makes it seem like everything is sliding off to the right - is this intentional? accidental?

Returning to the idea of a properly designed museum exhibit, maybe as displayed “en masse” a reaction of ‘not comfortable to view’ is part of the point of these images?

Or maybe it’s a simple case of "Well, this guy is famous, and so we’ll be able to sell some books with some of his photos that didn’t make the cut for previously published work? Just because a photographer is considered “good”, doesn’t mean every photograph by that photographer is equally “good”.

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I think in our technical deliberations we sometimes miss one of the fundamental reasons for creating images: to tell a story. http://wired.com will occasionally have “gallery” photography articles that present a photographer’s endeavor to tell a story in images, sometimes to accompany a so-called “coffee table book” release. Some are technically more compelling to me than others, but I always find it interesting to postulate on the thinking behind why and how the images were created To Tell The Story.

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According Wikipedia it’s 35.2 by 55.1 cm.

He is famous for using some unusual printing technique to bring our the riches sort of deep/gloss colours.

There’s a video from Tate that shows what one of his exhibitions might look like.
http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/video/tateshots-william-eggleston

I think this is important the abstract and the pictoral creating tension. They aren’t in perfect sync but the images oscillate.

To be a successful artist your work has to form a body of work. Art is made sense of in relation to other work. Work by the same artist, contemporaries and the history of art. For a museum or gallery this context is crucial. Perhaps this is even more important for photography than painting or sculpture. A serial nature. Eggleston is interesting because he was more or less the first to have colour photography accepted by a major art institution. So he broke through some big walls.

I’m actually surprised so many of you find Egglestons photos lacking. I’ve always seen him as quite accessible at least compared to other photographers who have been accepted by the art world proper.

Bernd and Hilla Becher and their followers of the Dusseldorf school are also very much acclaimed in the art world. What are your views on them? They fit the conversation because they are one of the few photographers accepted in the art world and their work is of an extremely serial nature.

Just had to add a Munch that I love! The scream isn’t that great imho…

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I just wanted to make a small slightly off-topic comment that I love that this discussion is taking place, and it’s really wonderful to hear everyones thoughts on this (and the challenge of trying to pin down my own thoughts on it are doing wonders for my considerations in the future for sure). So, a big thank you @Elle for bringing this topic up!

Surely this is something we can start doing regularly? :slight_smile: I nominate @nosle for a discussion next week about someone of his choosing.

(Fun side note - my 3yo just learned about The Scream and makes the face whenever we ask him about it).

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I second the nomination :slight_smile: .

Before posting about the lensculture Eggleston slideshow, I debated for several minutes whether to post at all (would anyone be interested) and then where to make the post, with “Critique” and “Lounge” being possibilities.

What I was really looking for was a Category that allowed to discuss why we make images in the first place and what makes images “good”, so that we can think about making our own images better. Maybe “Critique” really would be the better category for these types of discussions?