Fstoppers article: Lightroom vs Darktable Part I

Might be of interest to you. The article compares Darktable against Lightroom to explore if freeware can perform better than the most common software subscription for photographers. Part I is focused on Darktable’s Lighttable interface compared with Adobe Lightroom cataloging.

His biggest issue with DT Lighttable is a lack of a historgram. Personally, I don’t see this as a compelling reason to go with one program or the other.

Part II is next week, where he’ll review editing capabilities

See the article at Freeware Versus Subscription Part 1: Can Darktable’s ‘Lighttable’ Beat Lightroom’s ‘Library’?

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Ugh… “Freeware” and “Darktable”

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He addresses that (darktable = freeware) in the comments as trying to appeal to more readers, but yes, agreed, not good.

I’m always really suspicious of these kinds of articles because I find it hard to believe that the reviewer has or will spend enough time with the software before writing their review. It takes weeks or more often months of regular use before you start to get really comfortable with such a complex piece of software and to start appreciating (or not) all its strengths and features. Especially because there’s no real onboarding for darktable so that’s a lot of manual reading and research needed before you know what you’re doing.

The answer to whether darktable can replace Lightroom is obvious: sure, it can. After that, there’s no real “winner” regardless of the points the reviewer awards to Lr or darktable. It’s personal preference. Each piece of software will have its specific types of users and fans. I made my decision to move away from Adobe and couldn’t be happier. But I’m also perfectly aware that others won’t find the transition a happy one. It’s a personal choice, nothing more, nothing less.

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Judging by the response to some of the comments under his article that he’s trying to make an honest attempt. But yes, it would take a lot of run-time with both packages to make a real comparison. It’ll be interesting to see how he assessed editing next week, and if he’s up to speed with the core modules like Filmic, tone equalizer, and color balance.

I thought the article was actually surprisingly well-researched and even-handed. Most of these are quick “oh, I see it’s not Lightroom. Therefore it sucks” kind of affairs, and this one was not.

So I’m cautiously optimistic about the editing part. But truthfully, Darktable’s tools are very, very different from “the norm” of LR/C1/ON1/DXO/Luminar/X5. I don’t expect the author to have expended enough effort to get to grips with Filmic, for example (all other tools want you to raise shadows, where filmic wants you to raise exposure and recover highlights instead). I expect him to just play with the highlights/shadows sliders and be disappointed, instead of discovering the tone equalizer.

But, as I said, I’m cautiously optimistic. If the author truly goes against the grain and reads the manual, then there ist hope.

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In the comments he says he read the manual for the lighttable before writing the article. Not sure which version of the manual, but if he does the same for the darkroom I’m optimistic as well. A few people also linked to the Pixls-article about the scene-referred workflow, I hope he at least scrolls through that.

It would be interesting to compare Darktable’s scene-referred workflow to Luminar AI in terms of:

  • Final edited photo quality
  • The time required to achieve a pleasing result
  • The time required to export photos

Does the total time include the lost time when Luminar crashes? :wink:

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Having used Lightroom for many years, I must say that using Darktable’s scene-referred workflow is very fast once you get how it works (study Aurelian’s videos), and achieve better results IMHO. Cannot be happier to have join Darktable !

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After having played with way too many raw developers for way too much time, there are only a few areas where the technical quality of a raw processor actually makes a difference. Most goals can be accomplished with most software if you know your way around them.

Luminar is perhaps the antithesis of Darktable. It goes all-in on “intuitive” tools such as the “mystic” slider. It provides easy tools that do many things at once towards a common goal. Darktable, in contrast, is all about “analytical” editing, where tools are as orthogonal and simple as possible.

This dichotomy between intuitive/easy and analytical/simple makes for a fascinating comparison. I often find Luminar’s tools great one-click solutions. Instead of faffing with multiple modules and masks, I adjust exposure and contrast, then hit the “AI accent” and maybe “Color pop”, and be done with it. It’s really cool. When it works.

When it doesn’t work, you need to start digging into which combination of weirdly-named tools can undo each other sufficiently to reach the result you like. And that process is frustrating. Algorithmic quality of the standard highlight/shadow recovery is not brilliant, either, and sometimes I struggle with getting colors to look right.

The process in Darktable is different: Darktable’s tools are good at addressing issues one at a time. So I’ll adjust the hue of a particular piece of red clothing, then recover highlights in a specific area, then increase local contrast somewhere else. And I can be reasonably sure that neither.of these operations will influence each other much. Contrast adjustments won’t shift hues. Color adjustments will leave brightness alone. But I will definitely need to judiciously combine several tools to get where I’m going. It’s more complex, but less complicated.

In the end, I find both approaches to image editing (as well as Capture One’s middle ground) valuable. I often try editing an image I particularly like in multiple developers. I invariably end up with different images, sort of like my very own Play Raw thread. Once I’ve found a style I like, I can generally reproduce it in either of the developers without much trouble. They are all technically more or less equivalent. But different workflows sure inspire different results.

(Performance in terms of user interface fluidity and export times is relatively similar. Neither of them is particularly snappy on my desktop, and both are almost unusable on my tablet. Capture One and Lightroom are seriously a different story, with all sliders rendering instantly, even on the tablet.)

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Thanks for the thorough write-up @bastibe
Darktable is great at what it offers - precise control and freedom.

Speaking of a middle ground approach, an AI masking feature could prove considerably useful. For example, if we’re talking about portraits, something like this:
AI mask → Create mask → Face
AI mask → Create mask → Eyes
AI mask → Create mask → Mouth

Or if we’re talking about nature and landscapes:
AI mask → Create mask → Sky
AI mask → Create mask → Foliage
AI mask → Create mask → Foliage → Flower, etc
AI mask → Create mask → Close lands
AI mask → Create mask → Distant lands
AI mask → Create mask → Animal → Bird, etc

It could be a time saver when editing hundreds of photos, if it’s feasible to do with reasonable accuracy. Speaking of using various tools combined, what editing software offers such a feature (and is stable unlike Luminar)?

ON1 has a face editing feature very much like Luminar’s.

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I really like the Darktable approach and features and looking forward to transition to it completely. The only thing that still holds me back, and the reason why I am reluctantly paying a Lightroom monthly fee (which I believe would be put to much better use by DT developers), is the speed on Mac Os X, which unfortunately is still too slow. Given the current rate of developing, I am very hopeful.

But Intel based Mac or M1?
Both variants shall be supported.

Intel-based, last-but-one MacBook Pro 13", before the M1. DT it is indeed supported, but it is still too slow.

I think this is very true. Basically, each piece of software gives you a different starting point and you build off that. This can have huge implications on your final result because we often think more in terms of “adding” layers of editing to our images rather than “removing” them. At least that’s true for me, maybe not for others…

If some software presents you with certain hues, luminosity, sharpness, etc. right off the bat, you often find that some of these “choices” are acceptable to you and you just try to correct or enhance the aspects that stand out as unacceptable. For example, you might find the exposure off and not really pay much attention to the shade of brown that the trees are. So you concentrate on the exposure and leave the tree hue, even though it may be slightly different than it was when you captured it. If it’s pleasing or at least unobtrusive, does it really matter?

Anyway, all this to say that darktable provides much more of a clean slate off which to build. There’s not necessarily a better or worse way of approaching raw development, but it’s interesting how you often get very different yet equally pleasing results from the same image just by using a different workflow.

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Which reminds me of one of my favourite features of Luminar: it has this ‘presets’ bar that shows you a dozen or so thumbnails of different presets, applied to your current image. But in contrast to other tools’ presets, these are not fancy LUTs, but always just combinations of Luminar’s regular tools.

The combination of having them rendered on your actual image, and being achieved with just the normal tools makes them worthwhile as ‘Play Raw’-style inspirational starting points for your edits.

Hello @bastibe

Capture One and Lightroom are seriously a different story, with all sliders rendering instantly, even on the tablet.)

By any chance did you test Darktable on Linux as well?
I am particularly interested in the comparison between Darktable vs Capture One, since, Imho, they cover a similar range of potential photographers users
I suppose you work on Windows since you run Capture One and Lightroom :slight_smile:

Needless to say, the best would be to compare Capture one 21 (just released) vs Darktable 3.4 (next big release with speed improvements all over the software) :slight_smile:

I am asking this question about Linux because I have always read that Darktable (together with other open source softwares such as Gimp etc) is not “optimized” to work on Windows.
I suppose all Darktable developers work on Linux at present…
In short, Darktable, Gimp etc are supposed to run much faster on Linux.
If you consider that on Linux there is not an anti-virus running in the background; the file-system is different etc etc there might be indeed a big speed boost in the end

Yes, I did. Not the very latest Darktable from git, merely the stable version from August. It definitely runs more smoothly on Linux than on Windows.

But in all but the very simplest settings, Darktable is a move-slider – wait – see-result kind of workflow, while Capture One always updates the image in real time.

Obviously, changing modules later in the pipeline is faster than, e.g. White Balance. You can make Darktable run better by ordering your edits in pipeline order. And maybe saving really heavy modules, like Contrast EQ and Profiled Denoise for last. Using a screen with less resolution than my 4k helps, too.

But at the end of the day, Darktable has a free-form pipeline, where modules can be in any order, can be repeated, and can each have their own mask. This is supremely flexible, but clearly not as performant as Capture One’s static and optimised pipeline.

Sometimes when you move a slider for the first time, Capture One needs a moment to prepare, before slider movements become visible and fluid. From that I infer that Capture One uses some kind of compilation, and heavy GPU optimisation, to implement its rendering.

Working with C1 on a less than state of the art Windows laptop, often I find it takes a bit of time for the display to respond to slider movements.

I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that Accel Ventures (the vulture capital entity that owns Capture 1) will not be seeing any more of my money.

Thus I’m carefully watching Darktable developments with an eye toward adoption when the time is right.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!