This is not generalization, this is fact. There is no full, working color management in Wayland. You can load an ICC profile, and that’s… 30% of it. We still need to be able to run the calibration software itself and it needs the permissions to access the monitor.
Supposedly RedHat is working on it now along with HDR support on Wayland. It will be very welcome when it comes, but it is not here yet, this is a fact.
Do you need to run the calibration software and have it access the monitor if you already have an icc profile that’s the result of it? I don’t. Even if you created it under X11, what does that matter if it can be applied under Wayland? And the generalization comment was ‘a critical feature of photo editing’. If I can apply my icc profile resulting from a calibration session and things look ok in calibration targets that’s fine with me. That’s a fact.
(Another fun albeit anecdotal fact is that under an X11 session the icc profile becomes un-applied everytime the system suspends. This has always been the personal case. In Wayland the profile sticks.)
HDR is a different topic.
Edit. I might try running displaycal to generate a profile under Wayland tomorrow. I never have.
Well calibration is not a one and done thing, and if you want accurate color you should probably be calibrating every one to four months. Are you booting back into X11 for that? Its going to be really inconvient.
Things “looking OK” doesn’t make a calibrated environment. And X11 is deprecated as you suggest, then it is extremely important to be able to run the calibration process in its entirety on Wayland. Again, being able to load an ICC profile is part of it, but not close to the whole process. If we are getting rid of software that works in X11, then we need a matching feature set in its replacement.
Wayland will be great when all that works, I’m sure, but that time is not now and wayland is not feature complete for a general photographic use case.
This doesn’t happen on my machine running X11.
I don’t understand why so many wayland optimists that I’ve encounter can’t understand the use case and are obstanant about accepting the current state of the software.
I don’t know what your definition of “a calibrated environment” is, as mentioned several times already the profile applies the same as on X11.
Nor am I quite sure why you would be calibrating every four months.
I can say that I don’t own a dedicated photo editing machine and X11 less useful for a few things vs Wayland as things currently stand. I have no love for a particular display protocol over another, you choose what works best.
Your replies haven’t been relevant to my question however (it wasn’t even about colors); you have just seemed to take the opportunity to vent on Wayland. Well done?
Wayland does #3, but not 1 & 2.
Your display’s color rendition changes it ages. Calibrating will keep it as accurate as it can be.
I totally agree, and wayland also still lacks features for some use cases, like this one.
You choose to keep replying and so do I, that is how this conversation has continued.
Developer here. There is nothing RawTherapee can do to really improve the status quo.
Hi there, dev of Rawtherapee I assume.
My query had nothing to do with colors. It was paperdigit’s pet peeve or something and I was foolishly led on that. Wayland has no issue with colors afaik.
Pseudo mode is for the UI, but not the overlay UI in the photo preview (it doesn’t change anyway whereas most toolbar buttons do). Pseudo mode is not for the photo preview itself either (nor meant to be as I understood the discussion in the linked gh issue). In addition pseudo mode isn’t required, at least not with KDE and “Let legacy apps render themselves” (I didn’t try RT without and don’t know whether it’s affected) (This week in KDE: Wayland fractional scaling! Oh, and we also fixed multi-screen – Adventures in Linux and KDE ) which fixed Obsidian and Insomnia and others for me. I’m just having scaling issues with RT at the moment and Wayland is deffo more the future than X11 
If the issue with fractional scaling is unsolvable maybe it can be indicated in the linked issue?
Darktable relies on GTK3 and doesn’t have this issue
If I do any scaling with KDE Wayland it makes everything go blurry which doesn’t happen with x11, doesn’t matter because I don’t need to do any but thought I’d have a look see.
The future isn’t now while ever there’s colour issues as it’s rather important to a lot of people and programs.
“Everything” used to be X apps but lately that’s been fixed. Ymmv of course.
There are no color issues with an applied profile and this thread was never about colors.
The issue was solely with Rawtherapee and fractional scaling on hiDPI displays (when you zoom a photo to 100% it becomes 150% size) on display protocols that aren’t turning legacy, an issue other Photo editing apps doesn’t seem to have.
Just as RT is still a great app and my favourite photo editor, it seems this thread isn’t going places. I’ll certainly think twice before asking another question here
It’s a good place for asking questions and you’ve had yours answered. It’s because you’re using something that’s not ready yet. Which is the same as using development versions of software, you’re going to run into issues that currently don’t have solutions, things you have to wait for. In the case of Wayland with some software the solution might always be that you have to use xorg for that.
Well… You wanted to know when support for Wayland would come to fix the blurry GUI. Different people have tried to tell you that nobody is seriously investigating compatibility with Wayland, simply because it does not make sense for a serious photo editing application to be used in an environment what does not support full-fledged color management.
Edit: so it’s not a matter of if there is a scaling issue, but simply that we don’t care yet to fix it.
Hi,
After browsing through the thread, I can’t really disagree with you… 
(meaning: I understand your frustration – I realised that my message was a bit ambiguous)
Nor will you. Wayland doesn’t support color management.
I stopped using Wayland when I discovered it didn’t support display detection to allow my software to select the right display profile.
To your assertion, you probably can use your already-created display profile with Wayland, but when you need to update it you’ll have to switch back to x11 to perform the operation to make the updated profile. PITA…
Wayland is still in early days, and has been there for quite a while… 
Well… You wanted to know when support for Wayland would come to fix the blurry GUI. Different people have tried to tell you that nobody is seriously investigating compatibility with Wayland, simply because it does not make sense for a serious photo editing application to be used in an environment what does not support full-fledged color management. So it’s not a matter of if there is a scaling issue, but simply that we don’t care yet to fix it.
What non-developers of RT think of “color management under Wayland” is immaterial. What you as a dev of RT think of a scaling issue (it’s not just the ui, re-read what I wrote) on a desktop that’s not entirely uncommon and becoming less so what with high DPI displays is material. Discussing it here is futile however and it belongs in a separate issue on GH I think, for visibility.
I note that other “serious photo editing applications” like the mentioned Darktable and Digikam don’t share this issue. As mentioned everything currently works on my desktop except RT and I think that’s a shame. I fully respect an OS project’s need to prioritize however, so it’s more like unfortunate for me. But yes I think this direction needs some visibility, so GH.
Note that the darktable project does not explicitly support Wayland at this time either, any thing that works right now under wayland is coincidental, and if glitches under wayland are experienced the user is invited to file a bug and see if the glitch is reproducible under X11. From what I’ve seen of the Wayland glitches, they are generally not repeocuible under X, and while the bug report is appreciated, it will be tabled until wayland has color management and at least one developer switches to using wayland.
I was trying to set some expectations for you and give you a general sense of the state of development.
I was trying to set some expectations for you and give you a general sense of the state of development.
Literally the first thing you did was discount my question by stating you doubted anyone even used the display protocol I was using.
And as mentioned it is entirely immaterial what you or others here think about color management, as long as I can apply profiles I’m managing but yeah, if for some reason displaycal can’t operate on wayland - and I don’t know that yet - I at least don’t feel the need to recalibrate every five minutes.
Sense of development of …what? The anti-wayland-sentiment herearound? Sigh, my question is one for the project, however it is treated that’s the proper avenue, this isn’t.
There is no anti-wayland sentiment. That’s all in your mind. There is the fact that wayland isn’t 100% ready for the photographic use case, but you seem incapable of digesting this piece of information. If it works for you, great, but it doesn’t work for people for whom running displaycal is an integral part of their workflow.
You may not know it, and you clearly don’t listen, but we here know that it doesn’t work. We have already had long discussions with wayland developers about what our use case needs, and we had those discussions over 4 years ago.
Seems like Red Hat is just now getting to it, as they have some scheduled sprints in the near future to implement HDR and hopefully fully working color management. Hopefully they’re successful.
I’ve been doing all the messing around to get Hyprland working with Nvidia over the last few days so not exactly anti Wayland.
I have no qualms with you doing your thing. I also have no problem with anybody using Wayland. Though as Mica explains, and as I have tried too, the issue you have with RawTherapee’s incorrect scaling behavior on Wayland will probably not be investigated because we (the developers, and frankly, most users here on the forum) do not use Wayland for the sole reason we do not think its color management is not up to specs.
This is not a dismissal of the issue you raise. This is a statement of prioritization for the developers. I hope you can appreciate that it is not a valuable investment of our limited time to investigate bugs on a system we don’t support.