How to get more accurate colors in DT for Sony (Capture One Vs Darktable)?

Add unbreak profile module and use the default gamma to check if that helps but there is an extra curve used with C1 this is why they can’t be used directly in general…

You might get some good info here and even some of the shared files might help…

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Instead of trying so desperately to emulate C1, I really think you should first learn to use DT on it’s own terms, instead of fighting against it, so to speak. By messing around with base curves, colour profiles etc. when you barely know how to use DT, you risk always being disappointed and not getting the most out of it.

Here’s my attempt. I tried to make the colours punchy, without going too far. Since you haven’t shared the C1 jpeg, I don’t know how it compares to that.


2021-11-27 MARAGOGI-077.ARW.xmp (6.7 KB)

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I extracted it above from the raw file…

That’s the Sony jpeg, not what C1 will give you.

We can only know that with access to the C1 settings as there can be a combinations of curves and profiles applied by default in C1 and those have not been stated or provided I don’t think… The OP would have to provide that and of course as you say the exported jpg as most people don’t have capture one…the extracted one is just the Sony reference… but it serves as another data point for comparison of the DT and C1 “looks” created in the various posts for this image…

Honestly, I don’t care at all about the C1 settings. I’m not trying to replicate them in DT (which would be a fools errand in any case). I just want to know what the result looks like, so that I can try to replicate the look. For that a jpeg exported from C1 is needed - a screenshot isn’t really good enough.

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I downloaded C1 trial…using the A6300 generic profile and the auto curve and the high contrast film curve you get these 2 jpg files…I didn’t make any edits or touch exposure…


I agree I would just use capture one if that is the look you like…

EDIT:

Setting the curve to Auto and the profile to the proicc version and hitting C1 auto correct produces this… It seems like it only changed a couple of settings to produce this but I could be wrong… So maybe this would be the C1 default ish… look…

image

Thanks. I’ll have a go at replicating them tomorrow.

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Hi @priort ! What do you mean with auto curve? could you please share your sidecar file?
Thanks! :slight_smile:

I am talking about Capture One…the default curve is called auto. That is what I used…there are about 5 others including linear… the second curve was the third option… and the final image was basically the first one but C1 had an “Auto” correct feature like basic photo apps… So i applied that … So those are the 3 images… Sorry I don’t have access to C1 at the moment to post a screen shot but its pretty obvious… The various ins and outs are explained here… in case this is what you are asking?? Take Full Control of the Tone Mapping by Using a Linear Film Curve - Photo Editing Tutorials, Tips & Tricks - Capture One Blog

Sorry, I completely misunderstood your message!

Anyway, I’ve tried to use the C1 input profile in darktable but I don’t get good results. I think the reason is that the unbreak input profile module has a non linear output and that invalidates somehow the rest of the pipeline, so that I get clipped highlights very fast.

Does somebody know if there is a proper way to use a 3dr party input profile in darktable? Maybe using the tone equalizer module right after the input color profile module instead of the unbreak input profile? I will try it out later…

In Capture one there are 2 curves applied please see this link How to create Capture One profile

See my edits it is very close to the Capture One default as shown by Todd Prior

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I have the same problem. Would be glad to read an explanation why this happens :slight_smile:

That’s what i said earlier.
Also, the profile is meant to fix extreme highlights by bringing them to white , while dt tried to preserve colors as long as possible .

Also, these profiles have a curve in them, or they expect a certain curve to be applied first. The 'unbreak profile ’ module is meant to give you something to toy with to get the profile more usable .

But it’s never going to be 100% usable , since the profile and the C1 pipeline go hand in hand , and its always going to be a struggle in every other raw software out there .

The same for Adobe dcp files . See the amount of toggles in rawtherapee , sometimes you really need to play with it to get to use them .

The DT profile works fine in DT, and with the quick and easy calibration tools in the 'color calibration ’ module I’m more than happy .

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They are meant for capture one…Sure with a bunch of tweaking you might get something but the absolute easiest way is to just use the tools in DT. Use the profile there and fhen use the color calibration color checker feature to make an adjustment preset.

This should give you nice colors. Some ICC are valid over a reasonable range of lighting but many are not. Using an ICC blindly is just as much a penalty to the "scene referred workflow as many of the other things people worry about…

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I don’t understand this. Unless the profile itself is clipping somehow, there are no clipped highlights in the unbounded, scene-referred workflow.

If you use the base curve as your tone mapper, or you use LUTs, you’ll have to make sure you get their input into the 0…1 range (using an instance of exposure or tone equalizer, for example).

Excellent idea, man. I have already started reading the darktable manual to deepen my knowledge about the tool.

Thank.

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Just a side note on this one and as a comment on your exploration…there can be a significant difference if you use the legacy vs default module order when using the basecure… so using your C1 icc and unbreak and the neutral base curve creates a decent base image if the legacy order is used but in the new default its quite a bit darker…on the other hand that is a better place for the curve to be and so may preserve the highlights better and so perhaps that route with some exposure added might work depending on your taste…not sure how that would compare to what you get as you see it in C1 but its worth trying both approaches or at least noting what module order is used when making any comments or comparisions…

image

I think the problem was that I was setting the parameters of the unbreak input profile not properly, so that I got following scopes diagram:

UnbreakInputProfile

And then I increased the exposure and the image was very bright and without contrast.

I found this github issue from you (@kofa) where an explanation from AP is linked. I get now good results using a C1 color profile + unbreak input profile.

The links are:

Interestinly enough there says that the unbreak color profile was the predecesor of filmic rgb :astonished:

Thanks @kofa !

This… It pushes extreme highlights to the exact se white , effectively clipping them .

I have a feeling C1 applies the icc somewhat at the end of the chain , even after te curve and all other edits.

In DT you can’t drag ‘input profile’ to be above all others as far as i know .

More importantly , you can work with getting everything between 0 and 1 and even then reduce highlights more to get them to render nicely with the C1 icc… but the whole idea of ‘getting the C1 look easy’ is then out of the window , since you are more fighting to get the weird icc to produce something nice then you are editing your images.

At least the reason I stopped using them. The first reaction was 'oh this is nice ’ on some photos . But it quickly turned into 'this is a hassle '.