Hi!
I’m new to darktable (came from Lightroom), and I’m having some issues with colors.
My images in the darkroom interface look quite desaturated and dark, but when I export them then the saturation goes back up again and it makes it really hard to tell if my colors look good while editing.
Here’s an example: https://i.imgur.com/bHSRYyX.png
Darktable image vs the same image exported, and opened with Photos on Windows 11.
Using jpegs from a Fujifilm XT-30.
Here the exported image looks way too saturated, but I couldn’t tell that from the preview in darktable…
What can I do to match the image I’m seeing in the darkroom interface to the final exported image?
Welcome…so we need a bit more information…DT version looks to be 4.8 and current settings for all your color profiles and your export settings… would help I’m not sure about you but for me Win 11 photoviewer is not usable…it autoenhances photos and this cannot be turned off… The photos look correct for a second and then they brighten… I would use something colormanaged and reliable like xnview or faststone viewer. Also make sure to view on the same background…dark vs white will for sure give you a different impression…
Between profiles and most monitors still supporting something similar to sRGB…your not going to see much using softproofing for this type of function… With printer profiles you will as they are lower gamut and you can visualize some difference but for most you will see little if any change unless maybe you have a wide gamut monitor…
Windows 11 Photos doesn’t have color management. Therefore, if you export an image in anything other than sRGB, Photos will not display the image correctly. It is preferable not to use Photos on Windows. Please use Windows Photo Viewer instead of Photos.
I leave the final answer to more knowledgeable people (as I’m a new dt user myself), especially because the rendering difference from your darktable to export looks quite drastic. My suggestion is somewhat related and can help, but there must be something bigger going on within your settings; I see you’re trying to edit a jpeg. An xmp sidecar and your picture could be really helpful as others suggested, for further investigation.
By the way, in Windows Colour Management, you have the option to choose profiles assigned to your monitor. If you have your monitor profile installed and add the sRGB one (assuming your display is close to sRGB, I don’t know enough) and you wish to see how much of an impact it has: switch the profiles back and forth, the photo you are viewing will change instantly in the Windows 11 Photos app. If you use the classic Windows Photo Viewer instead, you will have to open the pic again to see it applied. Unfortunately it even presents minor differences in how some pixels are rendered, but we’re speaking about maniacal level of zooming level; it’s an older software, so I expect their colour science and/or coding to have changed since then .
What I’m trying to say is that I don’t suggest you these viewers for comparing your editor to final render and instead of constantly switching profiles to view an sRGB photo exported from darktable consider using: IrfanView, One Photo Viewer or one of the colour-managed apps others have suggested in the forums (even a browser like Firefox displays sRGB pictures correctly, I don’t use other browsers, so I didn’t compare).
I don’t really know if a screenshot is the best/proper way to show the behaviour of “Photos” but here you can see the difference from Photos app managed with my monitor color profile (on the left) vs managed with sRGB IEC61966-2.1 (on the right):
To better compare: open the images in new tabs and switch from one another to see differences.
The most noticeable being that when I set my system with my monitor profile it shows up darker, if I switch to sRGB it looks lighter, that’s why I don’t trust that app and prefer using the ones I suggested.
I will spare you the number of screenshots I had to go through, align and pixel-peep to confirm that all the viewers I proposed you are working properly with sRGB tagged pictures because of a misconception I had while trying to reproduce the issue.
I think most of the viewers that let you specify the display profile are decent…Two that I have used are Xnview and Faststone viewer… The former has a pretty long history and supports most OS…
I have said it before but I take the time to fully specify the icc profile I want used for my display in all applications and I don’t rely on the system setting. Most applications should obey it but I have seen reports of some that don’t and the Window’s OS settings are not clean and clear so I just feel better knowing what I have told the software to use…
And finally viewing on the same border / background is key…you can’t view one against white and one against black. Also the same or similar zoom can at times impact what you might perceive…
Indeed, that’s why I stopped using the Windows Viewers years ago in favour of more customizable options. I still have WPV enabled since when I moved from Win7 to Win10 because Win10 Photos was even more problematic, but I rarely used it anyway in recent times (mostly because with WPV I could set my background to a colour that wasn’t a nightmarish gradient thanks to regedit).
Let’s hope @MaximusPrimeForever comes back so we can look at the xmp settings, but at least I think getting rid of Windows Photos out of the equation removes part of the problem of comparing from software to render.
Quoting my self… I have a quite new computer at work now and Win11 isn’t showing that auto brighten that it does on my home PC which is Win11 and fully updated but with an older pedigree…maybe its still there and its the images I have chosen to test… The observation has been reported on reddit and elsewhere… knowing Microsoft they could be constantly tweaking what the default look is…
I must admit, and it must be noted that I’m going through trial/error and experimenting myself so pick everything with a grain of salt, but this is what happens in Win11 Photos app vs other viewers when switching from my monitor profile vs the sRGB profile, to show what I meant in my previous reply. Carefully look especially at the centre B&W gradient.
Top Left is One Photo Viewer, Top Right is Win11 Photos
Bottom Left is IrfanView, Bottom Right is Firefox
Unfortunately Imgur compresses the video which is already just 235kb and manages to make a 480p mess at 100kb so I have to use another host which in turn deletes after 2 days, sorry for the inconvenience, pixls.us wouldn’t let me upload this snippet.
As you can see, viewers and browser honour the colour profile, while Win11 Photos and Windows Photo Viewer get what’s thrown at them in Colour Management Settings.
Unironically, this stuff almost killed my passion when I didn’t know why Windows screwed my colour so much from the graphic suites I was using.
Alright, so just to clarify I’m editing jpegs, not raws.
I don’t have the original exported image anymore, so I’ll use a new image to provide the comparison and XMP data.
I uploaded the files here: https://we.tl/t-lajSV4AwJZ
DSCF4053.JPG is the original image, and DSCF4053_exported.jpg is the exported one obviously.
My main issue is that exported photos look different from the preview in darktable even in the browser - I upload my photos to Google Photos, and they look oversaturated just like in Windows Photos.
So using a different image viewer for windows won’t really benefit me here…
Really appreciate the help so far!
Google will use the os setting. That should be your display driver. Win11 will also use the OS system driver.I’m not sure if Firefox lets you specify a profile. directly if not it should use the system and if set properly in Win11 it will be okay… Any viewer should also be okay and match. Now as for DT you would have to be sure it too had the same profile… Basically use color managed apps and set all of them to the same profile…a calibrated one if you can and if not the one that comes with your monitor
Could you provide a screenshot of your export settings? I’m trying to reproduce the look of your “DSCF4053_exported.jpg” with the xmp sidecar you provided, but I get a less vibrant shot instead.
I have the same issue. You can see the difference from the provided files…original was encoded 4:2:2 but even matching the 4:4:4 of the exported file the export for me is less saturated and matches the display preview. I even tried the two HQR settings and neither did it… I’m wondering if there was a different export or output profile used from default??
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