HW-calibrated display, color profiles and darktable workflow

Don’t overthink color management, you are supposed to have a color management system which will take care of on-the-fly color conversions.

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Since having access to Windows, I’ve calibrated my EIZO with Color Navigator + i1 Display Pro, copied the ICC profile and put in darktable’s color/out folder so I could set it as display profile1.

As @anon41087856 said - it’s set & forget. Once the characteristic of my display has been described (in the ICC profile) at given hardware settings (D50 illuminant and native gamut in my case), I don’t change anything (the buttons on the monitor are even locked :wink: )

Every 40 hours built in sensor checks if everything is okay and that’s it. No need to hop between monitor modes and settings.


1 My fresh install of EndeavourOS happily doesn’t allow me to choose the ICC in XFCE settings, so I manually selected the profile in darktable.

Yeah, you have the ICC profile because, as far as understand, you use dedicated colorimeter hardware and DisplayCal.
Unfortunately DisplayCal doesn’t support the built-in colorimeter in my monitor and I don’t want to spend extra money for an additional colorimeter.

As a fallback I’ll try to work with the default AdobeRGB ICC-profile and set the monitor to AdobeRGB color space only. I’ll edit some pictures on my Linux box, export them to sRGB-jpegs and verify the on my wife’s Mac. I’ll report later.

-Foka

Don’t overthink color management, you are supposed to have a color management system which will take care of on-the-fly color conversions.

I would like :wink:
I believe your statement is true as long as a valid ICC profile is installed, and this I don’t seem to have.
Or are you referring to the standard AdobeRGB (from icc-profiles-free package) and using just the system profile in Darktable while the monitor is always set to AdobeRGB color space (without switching back and froth between both color spaces)?

Well, I thought I would get the ICC profile without a need to buy extra hardware.

Did you install ‘xiccd’ package? I had the same issue, but after installing it, color settings in Xfce4 seem to work well.

-Milosz

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I don’t own i1 either - it was borrowed :slight_smile: Perpahps you could find a friend or someone who has it and will be willing to share.

Or if you live in Poland (I’m guessing from the name Miłosz), you could hire a pro who will carry the calibration process for you, e.g.:

http://kalibracja-monitora.pl/cennik-kalibracji/

Perhaps not, since I wasn’t aware of its existence :sweat_smile:

Well, my parents are from Poland but I live in Germany since I was a small kid…
Anyway, AFAIK, in my area there a no calibration services. I think this is because a calibration device costs about 150-250 Euro which probably isn’t much more than the service itself would cost.

The idea to borrow a colorimeter however is interesting. I’ll ask around.
Thanks!

You need 3 types of ICC. A camera/scanner/in calibration profile, a working profile, a display, print, out calibration profile. With your Dell screen, you had to create the display profile with the calibrate app which comes with the Dell, under win, & you export it to Linux. Let’s notice… In win, you can choose 24 or 30 bits display mode. In Linux, with Nvidia, you can choose the same. Don’t mix! In Linux, you install the ICC with the Colord packages (+ xiccd if needed). In your graphic software, you select the icc made under window as a display profile, a linear working profile (prophoto, rec2020), & your camera/scanner calibration’s profile.

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If every part of the color management gonkulator is fed with an appropriate profile, you should see no material difference between sRGB JPEGs displayed on you wife’s sRGB laptop and your AdobeRGB-mode monitor fed through a AdobeRGB profile. Just make sure your sRGB JPEGs contain an embedded sRGB profile.

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problem is AdobeRGB is a color space, not a hardware profile, so I’m not sure it’s good. :thinking:

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In the monitor settings it’s ‘AdobeRGB’ color space but, as I understand it, the matching ICC-profile, on the computer, is called ‘AdobeRGB’ as well, isn’t it?

I use a sRGB profile as my display profile on my close-to-sRGB Windows tablet, works fine. If the display is set to a known colorspace, this should work.

I use Elle Stone’s well-behaved ICC profiles for such stuff:

https://github.com/ellelstone/elles_icc_profiles

Yes. If you need an AdobeRGB profile, I recommend this one from Elle Stone’s collection:

https://github.com/ellelstone/elles_icc_profiles/blob/master/profiles/ClayRGB-elle-V2-g18.icc

If it’s too dark, then this one:
https://github.com/ellelstone/elles_icc_profiles/blob/master/profiles/ClayRGB-elle-V2-srgbtrc.icc

I chose the V2 versions of these in case your software can’t read V4 ICC profiles. If it can, however, there are V4 versions available at the same place.

Edit: Oh, “ClayRGB” is the name she gave to these profiles to avoid copyright conflicts with Adobe. They contain the same color primaries and tone curves as the Adobe profiles.

It should work if your screen has been configured correctly, with the good white point and the good luminosity value … I don’t think it’s a good way to do with a wide gamut screen, it will not use all the screen capability.

Hi. I have a CX-model Eizo with a built in correction sensor to maintain settings and a compatible Xrite device. So if I understand you correctly, I can generate an ICC profile using CN7 on windows on my dual-boot pc, use that profile in Ubuntu and then still use the Eizo built in correction sensor to maintain the calibration? Thanks

I think so - mine built-in sensor once calibrated, works independently of operating system. When I switch off the computer (and the monitor along) sensor pops out and does its job.

Ah, great. Thanks. That’s good to know.

Hi,

If you have a Xrite compatible colorimeter you probably can use ‘displaycal’ on Linux to create a color profile, but I don’t think you really need it :wink:

What is the build-in correction sensor? Is it an built-in calibration device (colorimeter) and supports self-calibration? And does your monitor support hardware calibration, which means it stores the color mapping table in the monitor hardware?

If both can be answered with an ‘yes’ then you don’t have to boot to windows and create full blown ICC profiles.
I used to think the same, as I have a dell monitor with an built-in colorimeter. But I was wrong, at least partially (see below [1]). And ‘yes’ you can do this as you describe, but because your monitor probably stores the calibration data internally you only need an ICC profile that contains the gamut information and not the whole color lookup table.
Thus you can use just a standard AdobeRGB ICC profile, either shipped in the ‘icc-profiles-free’ package or the one linked by @Leniwiec. Just set it up in your Gnome/KDE/Xfce4 color management settings, use ‘system-default’ in darktable and set your monitor to AdobeRGB color-space. As long as all your sRGB jpgs do have embedded color profile information all images will look fine on your monitor.
In the meantime I checked this workflow on multiple machines and all my Images exported from darktable with embedded sRGB profile do always look fine (no color deviations).

If you use very specific, in monitor manually defined, color space the related profile can be generated using ‘displaycal-synthprofile’ from ‘displaycal’ package. Again the only information that is stored in the profile is the gamut: white point, red, green, blue, luminance and gamma. In my dell monitor there are two configuration slots for self defined color-spaces, thus I had to use this process to create matching ICC profiles, but in the end I don’t use those slots as AdobeRGB more than enough for me and provides better compatibility among different systems and software packages. You can find more information about it here: https://www.dell.com/community/Monitors/UP2720Q-ICC-profiles-for-Linux-or-Mac/m-p/8179908#M141056

On the other hand, if you use an ICC profile with color lookup table on a self calibrating monitor you end up with double correction of the color data, by the system first and then by the monitor later. This certainly isn’t what you want.

[1] The calibration verification data for self-calibrating monitors is only necessary to validate the deviation between color-space definition and the actual colors displayed by your monitor. If the deviation is negligible the gamut information in the ICC profile is all you need. OTOH if the deviation starts to grow, you’ll need to calibrate your monitor, with for example ‘displaycal’, and create a proper ICC profile with a lookup-table.

-Milosz

Edit: sorry the AdobeRGB profile was linked by @ggbutcher

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Perhaps creating the “full blown” ICC profile can be really convenient when you - like I do - don’t choose to limit your screen in any slightest way and pick “Gamut = native” during calibration :wink:

Hi Milosz,

Thanks for your help. The (used) monitor supports hardware calibration with setup using Eizo’s Color Navigator software (doesn’t support DisplayCal, I believe). The built in sensor cannot be used for a full calibration, I think, only for maintaining existing calibration settings. I guess Eizo “reserve” the former for their more expensive monitors.

“This sensor records your adjustment results, and maintains the white point and brightness values by automatically readjusting the settings at specific intervals that you determine. Even if the monitor is switched off or not connected to a computer, it will stick to its preset schedule and self correct.”

I will read up more on this topic as I don’t yet understand a lot of the fundamentals, but in the meantime I’d like, if possible, to correctly calibrate what I have now. I think I will use the Color Navigator software to try to calibrate the screen as that’s supported by the hardware.

I think in my initial question to Michal, I misunderstood that the colour mapping is stored in the monitor rather than on the PC.

I think the main issue for me then is that Colour Navigator won’t easily run on Ubuntu (in theory it will but I can’t see reference to anyone who has made it actually work). Therefore I would need to run Color Navigator in Windows (I dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 10) to calibrate the monitor, before switching to Ubuntu, where I do my Darktable editing.

I have one niggling concern (and here I’m probably going to make clear my black hole-sized level of ignorance) that in the switch from Windows to Ubuntu, the operating systems will themselves alter the color mapping. (I calibrated my old monitor using displaycal and generated a profile that I currently use in the Color settings in Ubuntu. I guess I can ensure that both Ubuntu and Windows are both using the same standard profile. (I’m not sure if any of this makes sense… but, hey ho).

Cheers!