I just mostly use DT as a file editor so I invoke it from using the following command line to use a virtual library each time I run DT. It also uses a separate config directory separate from the normal install location for DT.
Then as I am using a 3.5 dev build I simply use the import in place button when I open DT and open the folder that I want and do my edits. As I use the virtual library and set the folder display in collections to be set to folders then any files I import in that session show as a list of folders in the collections. The best for me is that collections shows only the files I have imported and edited so its easy to go back and export them without any confusion…I am sure there are ways with ratings tags etc etc but I know I will never keep it up so I don’t try at this point.
As a background all my files are imported into the generic camera roll folder initially. I have a symbolic link to a folder named something like DT_photos where all my photos get stored. THis is just to simplify things as I use DT on 3 computers and the local folders are not on the same drives on each. So the workflow is that images are imported to camera roll. Then I sometimes do a quick cull there and then I create any folders I need in DT_photos using year-month-day_event and I move the files to those folders.
When I run DT I use the import in place on one of these folders. Then I edit the files or cull or whatever. When it comes to exporting I use a preset with syntax like this…"(FILE_FOLDER/otos/otoEdits)/(FILE_NAME)-DT" Which exports the jpg files to a mirrored folder structure automatically in a separate folder tree called PhotoEdits not photos…this will have the all exported jpg files and no xmp in exactly the same folder structure so very nice for viewing on a phone tv or any other device and it keeps them separated from originals as sometimes the original is a jpg…
This won’t work for many people but for me with multiple computers and using DT mostly for editing it is what I am doing at least for now…I also use a program called autover which is open source and it versions my xmp files so I can go back in time to any version of my xmp file ever written/created for one of my images. Then I just back up the two folder tree’s originals and edits and the xmp version archive. THats my setup…
Interesting setup. I will see if I can make something like this work for myself. I don’t even use dt for importing but do that with Digikam. I also do all my tagging and most of culling there.
You should be able to make that work then…use DK for all your DAM stuff…I am just not 100% sure how they share or read xmp…ie if DK modifies the xmp will that corrupt DT and the reverse…someone did comment a while back and I think they were getting them to work together…
The goal of Darktable or photo managing software is to manage only photos that you want to work on. So synchronizing a whole folder with files that are foreign to your work is not welcome. The goal is clearly to reduce the amount of photo you want to keep and focus only on them. This is a very specific type of work dedicated to one task.
May be this kind is not what you need. And that’s completely fine.
When working with Darktable and such software (lightroom being the other one), it’s to focus only on editing photos, not managing the files. Managing files is the job of other software that are best for that.
And this is how I’m doing today, by separating file management and photo editing. (at the same time it gives me peace of mind that everything works fine). The big struggle to get around is that with darktable and such, you are managing photos, assets, NOT files.
I can completely feel you on that. I had my struggles when I started with Lightroom, and I have new struggles now I’m trying to move to Darktable. That’s one reason my path to discover is to make videos on how to go from Lightroom to Darktable (they are in french, not english). Just my way and if it can help other people, even better.
What I can say is that Darktable concept is built on the same premises than Lightroom, and professional uses, that is focusing on one task, not multiple. And I think a lot of resources on the net forget to mention this for newcomers.
As newcomers, it’s obvious you think of file first and want to work from there. Where you should consider this as 2 separate hat on your head. First you are a file manager, managing all files on your network (your computer, but also mobile devices, backup drives etc…). And when you take the photo editor hat, then you only work on photos you import, and focus only on this.
This means as file manager, you have to find a way to have your file ready to be used by someone / something else (ie your photo editor role). Once I got this clear, I was able to enjoy both role and enjoy photo editing
Hope this helps a bit
This thread gives me the opportunity for my next video to explain this concept.
I understand the concept of having an internal database to store the edits and metadata. I therefore think I understand the purpose of the ‘collect’ and ‘filmroll’ paradigm. I pretty much always use the folder view to browse my files. I also have the option enabled to store XMP’s as sidecar files, sort-of bypassing the database idea. However… in conjunction with this, I really wish I could cut away the need for the filmroll step. Just give me direct access to my folders and let me see the pictures
The thing I find particularly annoying: I have folder which is regularly updated with new images (test cases for development issues and PlayRaws). I need to reimport these folders every time I make a change to include the new files (unless I am missing something and dt can do this automatically…).
If this is true, then darktable should definitely not require filmrolls. Filmrolls is by definition a way to manage a collection of files into logical groups.
We are both inline I see XMP as source but also redundant to the database. Always good (btw lightroom & camera raw can do save edit in sidecar file too, just a setting away)
DT doesn’t have this feature, I looked for it. And I thought that right clicking on a filmroll and selection “search for filmroll” would open the directory or its parent… but no You need to reimport like the first time, and need to navigate (again) to the directory you want. there is an UX improvements for that matter.
And for me, this reload is not needed 95% of the time. My photo organization is so that import only happens when files have been moved to their final location (not counting backup locations).
In Darktable, filmroll is the last directory which is “a kind of virtual folder” (found in the doc). It’s just a groups containing reference of photos. But the user can’t alter this groups be adding or removing photos, just like a virtual folder would allow.
For me a film roll is more a group containing all photos of a session, like a photo shooting, a wedding. It 's dependent of a context, not a date, folder location or filename. Of course it could be physically in one folder with all photos inside.
Like you I like better the folder view than film roll. And it seems that DT 3.5 keeps collection view setting to folder when you set it.
I would also have virtual folders (manually created or with rules).
Ya so I only have around 300 GB of files but I rarely use DT for any other purpose than to edit the files of interest in the moment. So I don’t need access to features of the database related to managing all of them in any one session. Typically I review or search my photos outside of DT when I am going through them or looking back in time where as I am just opening and editing a few new folders that I have not edited yet in DT….so that is why the memory or virtual library per session works well for me but might not be the solution that some others might need….It really just depends on how you use DT and what functions you use I guess…
It seems RAW editors all start out focusing on processing images but then it turns out that some file management is needed so they start adding something but reluctantly and in an incoherent way. I have seen this with Lightroom, then with Capture One and now with darktable. They all have very quirky file management.
I will have to do more experimentation with darktable’s folder view and will probably find an acceptable workflow eventually. Thank God it stores the adjustments and tags in an XMP file so it’s easier to reimport things and also work together with other tools like digikam. I also Version control the XMP files with git so I can go back if something goes seriously wrong.
That’s may be why Bridge does only file management, and Camera raw only raw edits. Adobe keep the 2 software separated. Lightroom is kinda both combined together. However having a separated file manager makes difficult to keep smart folder consistent and fast to access, as it needs to browse continually the disk. Or there could be a “watch” feature. Not with a centralized DB as in Lightroom. There are pro and cons I guess.
Skylum had big trouble adding their DAM inside Luminar. It’s seems it’s quite complicated to build one.
I can’t run Digikam on my Mac (there are some odd things happening with mysql or something), so I’ve no opninion on it. For me Bridge is my reference for now.
I never thought about versioning xmp… I clearly see the benefits, but I see the extra work for now too complicated for my use. But I keep that in the back of my mind!
and if it can help other people, even better.
You need to reimport like the first time, and need to navigate (again) to the directory you want. there is an UX improvements for that matter.