I know RW uses non-destructive RAW editing but – and I’ve searched Rawpedia – it seems that once I save an edit, the browser and file panels only show the new jpg/tiff and the sidecar files. It does not show the original unedited RAW file and so if I try edits in the future I am stuck with what Ive already done in the sidecar file.
How do I access the original Raw file (e.g I want to scrap edits and start over) ?
or
Can I save multiple versions of the Raw file (changing file name) without changing the format ?
Preserving Raw files in RW seems quite convoluted, so what am I missing ?
You can have as many sidecar files as you like; the original RAW file will not change;
by switching to another sidecar file, you switch to another edit, so to speak.
That’s easy to do, in the file browser, right-click the image, and click this:
I’m not 100% about the difference between reset to default and clear, but certainly one will do it. I really need to learn a bit more about RT!
Reset to default will treat the image just as if it had been loaded in the editor for the first time. Clear will totally remove all edits as if it had never been loaded.
[ edit ] - Using Clear will also reset the thumbnail to the embedded JPG from the raw file. Once the file has been loaded even once, the thumbnail will reflect the look of any edits, default or explicit.
From Preferences - RawPedia - When you right-click on a thumbnail and select “Processing profile operations > Reset to default” RawTherapee will apply whichever processing profile is selected as default for that image type.
In Darktable you can make a duplicate and start the editing process from scratch without losing your previous editing attempt. Can something similar be done in RawTherapee?
I thought (assumed?) you could do it by manually manipulating the sidecar (*.pp3) files at the filesystem level , e.g.:
Edit image
Rename *.pp3 sidecar
Re-edit image differently
Back up second sidecar version
Rename original *.pp3 back to the right name
… and get your original edit back, but quick empirical testing doesn’t indicate it works. However, all that’s “behind the back” of RT so It’s not surprising. If there’s a built-in facility to “apply” a specific sidecar, I’m not aware of it.
So to answer your question, AFAIK you can’t do that.
Thanks for the response. I find it is a very helpful feature in Darktable and maybe RT developers might see the worth in incorporating it a future feature.
I can see where it could be useful in some circumstances. I’ve tried it a few times in darktable but for me personally it’s not something I use. In the (so far) rare-for-me instances I really need two versions, I go to the filesystem, duplicate the raw file and go from there. But that’s not to dismiss your use cases nor the usefulness of the feature and there are definite advantages to having the raw editor work from a single common file. I guess it’ll come down to whether enough people want it and developers implement it.
…annndddd… scanning back up-thread it appears (as is all-too-often the case) I’ve been mistaken. @Claes apparently has provided a RawPedia link on this very topic. Maybe I should go read it… LOL Good thing I don’t need to do this often!
*"Reset to default will treat the image just as if it had been loaded in the editor for the first time. * Clear will totally remove all edits as if it had never been loaded."
The is the answer to one of my questions on how to get back to and access the original RAW file. Thanks !! But 3 clicks just to delete an edited file ?? Thats what I’d call bloated software. And I still cant figure out the difference between ‘Reset’ and ‘Clear’.
As for my 2nd question, whether one can have multiple versions of the RAW without changing formats,
“You can have as many sidecar files as you like…”. But I dont see anywhere showing how this is done.
And I did come across this review on a software site:
“No ability to save “multiple versions” of an image into the sidecar. You only get one. Even though you can save “snapshots” of settings while in the editor, those snapshots are NOT saved to the sidecar file, so you lose your snapshots when the file is closed… Seriously! This is one of the most basic features of non-destructive RAW editors, and RT might be the only app in its class that can’t do this.”
Bloated software means that it contains stuff that falls outside the scope of its intended use, or that its size (MB’s) is much more than you would expect from the available functionality.
In any case, to reset to ‘unedited’, you only need two clicks.
I can’t locate the specific page at the moment but this is covered in RawPedia.
Basically when you load a raw file for the first time, a number of default (necessary) processing steps are done so you can see and edit the image (even before you make your first explicit edit). That’s where “Reset” will take you back to: remove all explicit edits, but leave the default steps alone. “Clear” will totally remove all processing, default and explicit: as if it’s never been edited at all.
(Please note I’ve been referring to the options available in the file browser.)
Not sure what you mean – Delete the original raw file or just remove your edits? Your edits will never be applied to the actual raw file. They’ll be in the output file, JPG, TIFF, whatever.
Your step 5, “Rename original *.pp3 back to the right name” to retrieve different edits, works if you restart RawTherapee after the renaming. At least in the dev AppImage I have, “RawTherapee 5.8-3161-g93aac4510”
It would be nice to have an easier way to save various intermediate versions. This is a lot of work.
A big difference is that RT snapshots are not persistent between edits and / or restarts, as far as I can tell. They’re points in time in the workflow. darktable duplicates are basically parallel and independent processing workflows, just starting from a common raw file. Using the duplicate is functionally no different than if it was a separate raw file that just happens to be identical to the first.
Yes and no. They’re snapshots in time, but they can also be used to bookmark a finished image. Then, you can wipe the slate clean and start over with a brand new edit without destroying your original work. I use this method all the time.
using “save” instead of “export” will also save the sidecar-file and automatically renumber it, if already existing. There is no additional work necessary.
One example would be doing multiple output exposure values to feed something to enfuse.
RT’s DRC tool meets 95%+ of my needs, but sometimes you really want to go all the way to synthetic exposure fusion. There are definitely some improvements that could be made to the workflow here, although I’m not sure what is exactly the BEST method.
Funny thing is, I recently complained about camconst values being relative instead of absolute (which can break if the underlying value changes), but for the -p option to rawtherapee-cli, relative PP3 offsets would be beneficial.
But we’re getting slightly offtopic here - I think there is a valid use case for being able to switch PP3 files from the UI, but I am very unlikely to be the one to implement such a thing because I SUCK at GUI stuff! Don’t ask me to go near the GUI unless you want an abomination to be born.
I was wondering what you were talking about. Turns out that the Output pp3, saved next to the exported (usually jpeg) file, in fact, numbers up automatically, and is the same as the pp3 file next to the raw file, which I didn’t know. But that does happen when you export.
Not sure what the “save” option that automatically numbers/makes unique any pp3 file would be, though.
And then there’s still the work required to get RT to use it, which seems to be moving it next to the raw file, renaming it to match the raw file, and restarting RT. It’s too bad that snapshots aren’t stored anywhere, once you load a new file or shutdown RT.
To make RT use any profile you just have to load it with the folder icon top right. The pp3 file is a completely flexible “style” or preset that can be applied to any image and also applied in part. This means that RT doesn’t use mental process of a duplicate or snapshot of the raw file but that workflow is in practice achieved by just loading the correct pp3.
So you just have to
Click the disk icon top right (Save current profile) to store snapshot
Click folder icon top righ (Load a profile from file) to return to any edit that you have saved
The pp3 files can be stored in any folder you like and don’t have to be associated with the raw file. They can also be moved anywhere and renamed with a file manager to structure your work. You only need to remember or name the files so that you know which one to load.
If you’re doing snapshots it may make sense to save with the raw file basename plus a descriptive suffix. IMG001.RAW_black-and-white.pp3 IMG001.RAW.cropped-1-1.pp3 etc. right next to the original file.
The important thing is to ensure saving a renamed pp3 of any worthwhile edit because resetting or loading a new pp3 means the active edit is lost.
So in a sense you should look at the IMG001.RAW.pp3 file as a transient file and saved profiles as finished edits. The fact that the preset concept and the edit concept are the same is RT makes it flexible but you have to get your head around it and also keep organised.
This is not correct. when saving a jpg or a pp3 or both, you are asked to specify a file name. As @nosle already mentioned, you can use very descriptive filenames to each edit.
If one day, you want to reuse this edit, just click “open profile” (top right) and click this descriptive filename. voila, no restart of RT, no renaming of filenames.
BTW: Its helpful but not necessary to have this pp3 beside the RAW-file, but you also can store it in any other folder.
The only missing point is, that you cannot see their prewievs in RT’s file browser when several pp3 are available.
