Raw and DNG files do not look the same

Software RawTherapee
21

That is the preview JPEG embedded both in ORF and obviously DNG. RAWs do not have a colorspace whatever Andrew Rodney has told you or anybody else.

22

Did not want to be rude, sorry, but it was meant everything but the results are the same and the number of variables is kept to minimum.

23

That is why we kindly asked for the facts : raw files (orf,dng…) and pp3. Thanks for bug report.

I don’t know, neither you. All SW contain bugs. I got a 9.12 dng converter that seems buggy (deformation of image)

What is, please the new windows viewer. I have on my W10 an app named “photos” but it is not color managed so unable to display photos with embedded ICM.

24

Windows Photo Viewer in Win 7 is “the new Windows Viewer”.
there are the PP3 files:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_gJzl0-HJ6RX0VaeWpUZ1ZpcHM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_gJzl0-HJ6RWWFNLU8xTGNFNDQ
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_gJzl0-HJ6RUjZoMWlxWjRud28

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Thanks. it’not available on W10. We just have this ugly “photo” app

26

@daiceHawk Where do the two jpgs (arw.jpg dng.jpg) come from? From my observation, with or without a profile, they are not exactly the same. Have you tried 16-bit tifs? I viewed and compared them in

  1. G’MIC (subtraction)
  2. ImageMagick (phash=3.14656)
  3. GIMP 2.9.7 (subtraction)
  4. Windows Photo Viewer (from win7)

PS As for RT matters, I will defer the investigation to more capable folks. Just wanted to confirm the difference.

1 Like
27

@afre both are from RT with the same settings (cannot recall whether ARW or DNG was the source for the other), with an external matrix only DCP profile made in the Adobe DNG profile editor, the same D65 or Interpolated illuminant for both).You can just load both files to two instances, make one reference, tweak it as you wish, copy the settings from that to the other and see the difference for yourself.

28

See my edit. Hope you figure out the root of the problem :slight_smile:!

1 Like
30

I’ve opened the .orf in rawtherapee and I’ve set the neutral profile, exported as srgb 16bit tif uncompressed and opened in photoshop

orf
orf1086×530 381 KB

Then I’ve opened the .dng in rawtherapee and I’ve set the neutral profile, exported as srgb 16bit tif uncompressed and opened in photoshop
dng
dng1086×530 376 KB

Definitely there’s a difference but it is really small (every pixel and not only the sample point )

31

Sorry, the white patch does not mean crap since the neutral color (even spectrally such as in the target shot) in normal neutral matrix should stay. Look at the sky gradient, check the foliage, sky, light skin patches (A3,A4,A5) A being the top row and number the column, they are even visually different providied youre viewing on a calibrated monitor . I am not talking Cameraraw, I am talking the RawTherapee handling RAW and DNG differently.

32

Wouldn’t it use the embedded DNG profile instead of the one from the camconst.json? Which would explain the differences.

1 Like
33

Might be, but that is a flawed behavior. I want to take control of the input profile. and you can check it yourself - apply the same input DCP or ICM profile for ORF and DNG in theColor Management > Input profile tab and still see the difference! At least, the DNG with an embedded profile should switch to Embedded, if possible!.

34

Perhaps the color management page can be of some help.

35

EdiT: sorry, the post was addressing not me.

36

Is your post adressing me?

37

Yes, it is. There is a decent explanation of how the profiles are selected there.

38

@afre Thanks, man!

39

I think we don’t know what DNG converter is doing to the data behind the scene. Perhaps nothing! Only Adobe knows. In peculiar, all exif data are shuffled, some modified. e.g. Lens cannot be recognised in the DNG file.
So I think the only way to be sure to obtain the very same output from ORF and DNG is to use an Adobe product.

40

Hi all,
I already posted this on github, but since probably not many people are actively reading RT bug reports, I’ll repost here :slight_smile:.
I’m not sure I fully understand what is the problem experienced by the OP, so I tried this little experiment:

$ rawtherapee-cli -j -p DNGAuto.pp3 -o orf.jpg -c P1015545.ORF
$ rawtherapee-cli -j -p DNGAuto.pp3 -o dng.jpg -c P1015545.dng

Then I loaded orf.jpg and dng.jpg as layers in GIMP, and set layer mode to “Difference”. Here is what I get:

31
311440×844 178 KB

Is this the difference in output we are talking about? If not, could someone please clarify? Thanks!

41

And just to put this in context:

$ rawtherapee-cli -j93 -p DNGAuto.pp3 -o orf-93.jpg -c P1015545.ORF
$ rawtherapee-cli -j90 -p DNGAuto.pp3 -o orf-90.jpg -c P1015545.ORF

Gives this:

shot2
shot21440×844 155 KB