Shadows/highlights balance module in filmic

As I understand this filmic control it should allow me to improve information either in the toe or shoulder of the data. When I watch the filmic curve change it would appear that there should be a really significant change in the displayed data … but, to be honest, I see little or no change even between the extremes of setting.
I have made some tests on a fairly wide range of images … am I missing something?

At the extremes, you will notice a slight change in saturation in the ends of the spectrum. If you crank up latitude it will be more apparent.

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why bother using filmic for shadows/highligts balancing instead of using tone equalizer for that purpose. Filmic‘s scope is to bring a range of shadow and highlight tones into a range the output color space can handle. (i.e. stuffing 14bit rgb into a 8bit range)

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I had expected something more/different than a slight change in saturation … I actually wondered if something in the code was simply not functioning correctly.

Of course, you are right … many ways to skin a cat; my question was an effort to find out why this function appeared to be only marginally effective.

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So, would you have Filmic enabled, but leave at default, and modify shadows highlights with the tone equalizer?
If you have DT in scene-referred mode, filmic is on by default…

of course yes - tone equalizer and filmic are two different tools like spoon and fork. you can eat your soup using a fork, but thats will be not a convincing solution - as well as treating a steak with a spoon. I fact it makes sense to use both for a meal :wink:
tone equalizer’s scope is correcting tonal values without being limited to a tonal range. So you can push highlights without bothering about clipping.
Filmic is used to bring high dynamic range of the captured scene into low dynamic range for the target media → it takes care to avoid clipping by tonemapping.
It’s worth to read darktable's filmic FAQ

Hi, yes I have been using filmic since it was first introduced in DT. But every time I think that I get it, I feel lost and confused again. I just don’t know how much ‘tinkering’ you need to do in filmic and how much in othter modules… so for now I leave filmic at its default an try to get a good looking image with other modules…

the default settings are quite well for non HDR shots. It’s all about workflow.
the basic required modules are applied by default when setting scene referred workflow in preferences.
Then it’s important to nail middle grey with exposure first. Adjusting shadows and highlights with tone equalizer or different modules in the linear part of the pipe is a second step. If this boosts the tonal range of the image then it’s time to decide how to cope with dark shadows and very bright highlights - keep &compress them or let them clip. → thats the domain of filmic and it’s sliders.

Since most current sensors record more than 8 bit per channel you’ll usually need a module doing some tone mapping - in a scene referred workflow, filmic ist the preferred tool for this.

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Use filmic to control the global contrast and tonality of your image.

Use Tone Equalizer to modify specific tones inside your shadows/midtones/highlights.

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Thanks to all for your responses … none of which really answered the question that I posed. If nobody is using the shadows/highlights balance module in filmic (for whatever reason) then it is basically a dead limb on the tree.
I did somehow feel that the developer must have had something in mind to include such functionality. As I noted earlier the filmic curve does change significantly when adjustments are made and with such changes I would have expected a greater effect on the image.

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Maybe use the new mapping display instead of the curve…It shows exactly what is happening when you move the sliders…you will see as it shows the direct ev mapping what is happening…it may be an easier way to understand the role of the sliders…

I just slide that to the left if I want more color in the highlights. Hope I’m not using it wrong.

I dont believe it is or was ever meant to balance or be used to manage overall shadows and highlights…I think it helps to tweak the mapping a bit if you have some clipping so you can maybe tweak that a bit but it is not as I understand it a tool to be use in a serious way to manage highlights and shadows…

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https://darktable-org.github.io/dtdocs/module-reference/processing-modules/filmic-rgb/#look

This parameter allows to relax the constraints over the filmic curve in case one end over/under-shoots, by sliding the latitude along the slope.

Since the latitude also defines the range of intensities that get positive or zero saturation boost (as opposed to the range out of the latitude, which gets gradually desaturated toward neutral black and neutral white), that balance also allows you to drive the desaturation along the dynamic range.

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Following @anon41087856 comments and what I said earlier…the nice view that he introduced in filmic I find useful monitor the sliders…you can see how it works with the latitude if you play with this…see below…neutral extreme right and left slider positions

image
image
image

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Side note : That’s why I insist on giving some background theory along with the using manual. You can’t base your understanding of a module solely on how it makes the picture look like, since human eyes are so prone to confusion, aberrations and illusions. So, a bit of graphs and maths is easier to understand than trying to make sense out of what you think you see.

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Understood … Thank you