Translate Lightroom instructions to Darktable

In one word: masking.
Split toning and vignetting requires masks (even if you don’t set them, they are used internally). Older modules work in a display-referred space, which is troublesome with masking (ugly transitions, halo forming, etc.). And the alternative modules which allow to obtain the same effects are more generic, not dedicated to one effect.

If you want the full story, look up the initial posts on the introduction of filmic.

I’d say the decision is entirely up to the user. For me, the ability to use a few basic modules with flexibilty is actually simpler and gives me greater creative control than a specialized module. Also, the newer modules have improved color science so they may give you better results.

Here’s an example from a snapshot I took last summer at the Isaak Walton wetlands in Rochestor, Minnesota. Here’s how the Vignette module appears on the pathway:

Its just a circular mask, where I can adjust its basic shape, fall-off, and saturation along with a few other things. It’s not bad, but I could do a lot more with Color Balance RGB:

All I did was add the same circular drawn mask, but instead of a simple exposure fall off, the module allows me to darken the shadows and brighten the highlights. I think this photo is more interesting. But unlike the Vignette module, I have the option to go beyond simple shapes:

With a free-hand drawn mask I have complete control over the photo. Plus I have all the other tone and color capabilities in this module. Doing the same edit with the Vignette module would actually be much more work, so that’s why I lean towards a few basic modules over a lot of specialized features. It also makes translating from Lightroom or Capture One a bit easier :wink:

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A reminder that darktable is not a lightroom clone. The less users think that, the better of they’ll be.

The less that users think they can just port their existing workflows from LR to dt, the better off they be.

The “equalvent” modules are all display referred.

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I reached out to Christian Moehrle, the author of the YouTube video, and he was kind enough to allow us to upload his raw image and try out our edits. So here are the files from his Google Drive and a screenshot of the final image from his YouTube video:

DSC00773.ARW (47.1 MB)
DSC00774.ARW (47.0 MB)
DSC00775.ARW (47.0 MB)

Photo courtesy of Christian Moehrle. Persmission granted for non-commercial use only. Please visit his video at 7 Pro Photographers Edit the Same Raw Photo: See the Transformations! - YouTube and consider subscribing to his channel at https://www.youtube.com/@ThePhlogPhotography

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One good example of where this idea of translation breaks down is in the most simple module exposure… Take an edit in DT and you might add 2-3 ev of exposure depending on the shot…you won’t likely add near that in LR and someone will say what the hell is DT doing? If I add x in LR it looks nothing like what DT did… Its what I was referring to as trying to learn from mimicry…

Or because DT works in a scene-referred way the various fulcrum sliders that define cross over points for module adjustments and things like contrast… and how this can be leveraged to impact the resulting effects …

In LR you are likely to start out with a bright saturated image unless you use linear profiles and neutral processing which would be a closer starting point to what you will experience in DT. If not then the path to the final product wont be nearly the same. In DT you will be adding back lots of saturation etc etc and in LR this might seem excessive… So again following a recipe from LR might not come close to a similar result in DT due to the different ecosystem and starting points for the image.

Its not like a general comparison might not be useful esp if someone has a lot of previous experience with LR… but learning DT from translation/mimicry from LR videos would seem like time not so well spent. DT has so many little nuances around how the modules interact and good or bad many paths to the same result whereas LR takes a lot of development shortcuts with profiles and presets the exact nature of which might not be obvious or would require considerable effort to decipher. This offers a starting image that usually will not resemble the one you have in DT unless maybe you use the basecurve in DT …

For general concepts like blending modes there are tons of good videos out there in Affinity Photo Gimp and Photoshop that can be really helpful to demonstrate use cases and the math. This would extend to other concepts around color, tone and color management. But a focused attempt at module or slider level translation to get a similar result in a different environment that supports a different workflow and approach to processing the image IMO might actually hinder and delay true mastery of DT and the tools it provides…

Everyone has comfort zone for learning and perhaps this, ie the translation approach is the ground truth for some…

I think to a degree I tried a bit of this when I first started to use DT and if anything I think it complicated my understanding and mastery of DT by trying to work in this translational way. I found it better to just get on with learning how and why DT behaved as it did and to follow DT users and observe their experiences and advice …

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Yes if you venture out into the greater internet photography community, the amount of “My mom’s cousin’s dog’s friend told me dt is a drop in replacement for lightroom so I tried it, but it isn’t that at all” is too damn high.

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When I started using darktable around 8-10 years ago I was also new to RAW editing. What I did was to watch a lot of Lightroom tutorials to learn what I was able to do and then I watched the few available darktable tutorials and read the manual and the articles on darktable.org to learn darktable. That worked pretty well for me, and I was pretty much able to translate the general concepts and figure out which darktable tools to use for different things. I have never used Lightroom for anything serious. I have access to it through work, but I only play with it from time to time just to see what it’s all about. I must say I feel constrained when using it, darktable makes me feel much more free.

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I must say by gross omission I recently gave a shout out to @s7habo and @Bruce_Williams as mentors that pushed me along and got me through the teething pains of trying to learn DT and I should have also mentioned you. You produced an excellent set of videos a few years back and they were a really clear and concise set of videos that provided a nice companion to the work that Bruce and Boris were introducing us to…Thx very much you answered many a question…

Thanks Dave for doing that!
I’ll upload my version a bit later.

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Now that we have permissions to post the photo from the YouTube video, I’d like to share my attempt at following along with Christian’s edits using darktable:


DSC00774.ARW.xmp (16.3 KB)

I basically took his choice of edits and applied what I felt was the closest analogous approach in DT. I think this looks pretty close to his final version. BTW, here’s how the image looked when I first opened the raw file, with Sigmoid activated:

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This is the edit I did when I started watching the video, before I saw Christian’s result. I was surprised that it wasn’t more dissimilar.

DSC00774.ARW.xmp (15.1 KB)

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Thanks a lot @Dave22152 ! Now is time to make video. :slightly_smiling_face:
Stay tuned!

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Well, thank you, Todd! I really appreciate that. I stopped making videos around the time darktable 3.0 came out. There was so much new stuff happening in darktable and at the same time I was quite busy with life, so I couldn’t learn it all quickly enough. I felt I had to relearn so much. And by that time Bruce was well established as the goto source and Boris came along with his wealth of knowledge, so I felt that there was no point in continuing. Also, I have become very active in my local photography club, so I don’t really have the time any more.

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I am surprised anyone has the time that is why it is so important that we those that do give of their time to help others out by sharing skills, knowledge and experience.

I think when it still fun and on your terms then people will make videos but I think then you start to feel the need to make video’s not for yourself to fill a demand….

I ‘m glad you are out taking pictures……

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Actually, I find it very useful to follow along with other people’s edits in darktable. While individual sliders certainly don’t translate well from {DxO Photolab,Lightroom,Capture One}, the general objectives are generally very applicable.

Of course care has to be taken to understand the different philosophies, e.g. when Capture One users prefer to use brightness over exposure to prevent highlights from burning, which is done differently in darktable.

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It might be of interest to see how a three-step-darktable-solution handles the image.

  • Step 1: in lighttable, merge the three images into an hdr-dng.
  • Step 2: in darkroom invoke the Initial Workflow lua script, written by @Ulrich_Gesing.
  • Step 3: export result:

And between steps 2 and 3, feel free to tweak whatever you like.

More script info here: Working with modules from Lua scripts in darktable - #42 by Ulrich_Gesing

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

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The video is finished:

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It was extremely insightful seeing you replicate those edits, and comparing them to the original video’s editing steps. Well done, and thank you!

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Here is my attempt on Christian’s raw (postcard style). Now I will fully
watch Christian’s and Boris videos.


DSC00773.ARW.xmp (37.2 KB)

The script is a bit broken in the master for now… some of the module renaming stuff I think. I did mention that to Ulrich but he didn’t have access to the master only 4.2… but its a sweet little tool for sure esp if he can fix it for the updated code and in particular with the unification of the workflow settings in preferences you can use this to work with that to set wb and CC as you want…