Why I'm leaving the pixls.us forum

Lounge
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Dear Elle,
I don’t know much about the thread/s you are alluding to, as I didn’t follow them/it.
But to give you a simple and (maybe stupid) suggestion:
If it is in any way possible for you, don’t react with another “division”.

And to add some personal thoughts on your paragraph above…
at least for culture , race and religion it has always been about keeping the “goods” (whatever they might be) to the group closest to oneself. So the self comes first then the family, then the own city, then the own country, etc…
This behaviour is observable in everyday human interaction all the time and to some degree is done by absolutely everybody. When the degree becomes to extreme, that’s where problems arise. Now the difficult thing about life is that the transition from tolerable to untolerable is no 0, 1 decision but a black to white gradient with no clear edge.
So what I want to say is that in the end this forum is but a small mirror of the world itself and it is, in my experience, always better to try to solve things then to walk away, though it might not feel easier at the beginning.

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It’s a pity you’re leaving. The world is pretty imperfect, and forums and photographers can’t be immune. Good luck with your picture-making.

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@Elle, I’m sorry you feel this way; this is certainly not the way we want things to go.

Everyone is welcome here, and we try hard to be welcoming. We also try to allow people to correct themselves. When it is clear the correction is not coming, or that things have gone too far, I take action as an admin. I’d rather have things go too far than cut them off too soon. These are my general thoughts, not a comment on any particular action.

For some specifics:

The policy is very clear. I can’t make people read things, but everything here is a default of the creative commons license. This applies to your posts as well. In addition, every version of the posts people make are licensed creative commons, which means we can publish or reuse any of those posts as we see fit. This is what the creative commons is for. This policy has been in place since the creation of the forums. I don’t understand what isn’t clear about that. It was explained in the “Who owns the content” post as well. If you have questions about the policy, then please ask, and we’ll do our best to answer.

In the case of the first wave of deletions, it was in the middle of the night, and we didn’t realize it until the posts were permanently deleted.

I’m sorry you didn’t get to share you thoughts, but that thread went too far off the rails and was no longer productive. If you’d like to share your thoughts on the creative commons license, I’d ask that you either start a new public thread to discuss your concerns or you can message me privately and I’ll do my best to explain our position. I had already stated as such in that thread.

Who’d you hear that from? It is entirely untrue. He’ll be unsilenced at the end of January. If he wants to return to post in a civil manner, he is certainly welcome back. If he chooses to continue in the manner in which he did prior to his silencing, then he is not welcome.

It isn’t about the word fuck. I’m an adult, I’ve heard the word before. It is about the way he was treating others, and not just me. The same goes for his friend, who couldn’t seem to stop insulting people. We tried many, many times for him to stop, and he wouldn’t.

And actually, his post was deleted, as he wanted it. You can see it here.

I’d invite you to re-read that thread, particularly my post.

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@Elle, I’m sorry you want to go. I have always read your contributions with interest.
If there are different opinions one should discuss these. If one does not want to take part in a forum any more, one can stop his or her activity (temporarily).
I have experienced such final farewells with “big” closing statements now already several times in different forums. I still do not understand, why this should be necessary.

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@Elle I am sad to see you go, personally had some of the most productive discussions with you, hope to see you around in other places.

Since I don’t think this is coming from nowhere and have seen some things that could have warranted a stronger moderator response I do think it is time to review moderator and forum policies.

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You can always read our FAQ and Terms of Service. We use the Creative Commons license and everyone should read and understand that as well.

You are more than free to start a public thread or message me personally (or another moderator, if you please) to discuss your concerns.

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Sure, please express opinions on foreign politics you don’t understand, based on American and English columnists reporting half the facts in editorials from their warm Washington DC office, and expect me to stay quiet on something I have witnessed first-hand. I have done nothing else than putting the context that lacked on the articles you mentionned, and also gypsies don’t settle in “white neighbourhood”, they invade private property without autorization, break electricity and water connexion boxes to steal from the nearest neighbour, and leave the place trashed, while the cities give them fields they don’t use, with running water, sewers and electricity. I hardly see how this compares to fighting against black people moving in the neighbourhood as proper tenants. Also, black people in the US were originally moved against their will, while Western European countries have never asked for Gypsies, so not the same context at all.

Also, I don’t think I have expressed a personal opinion on Gypsies. I have just stated what it involves to be their neighbour.

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Attaching “typical qualities” to whole ethnic groups, nations, “races”, etc., is the most bloody and malevolent European sport, there is. It does not end well and no stinkin’ “module” - and no chicken - is worth the price. So no, thanks.

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I agree.

Let’s put them aside in reserves so we don’t have to attach qualities to them. Once they will run casinos, they won’t be looking at our chicken anymore. The best way to deal with issues is to build walls around them. Plus, that gives good jobs to good citizens (or maybe underpaid jobs to illegal workers ?).

Also, there is one thing you need to understand when you talk about Europe from an American perspective:
you squeeze 1.6 times the US population on 2.3 times less space. The promiscuity makes everything worse.

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+1

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Really?

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Sometimes music helps.

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That is – obviously – sarcasm, related to what the US did with Indians reserves.

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Hi @Elle,

parting shot
Hoping you haven’t already cut yourself off, please let me express my shock and dismay at what you have shared. As has already been posted on this thread, the phenomenon of a long farewell post is all too familiar, but - dare I say it - tends to be akin to lobbing a grenade and heading for the hills. In other words, leaving with a parting shot, no right of reply given. I think such action is beneath you, and I would urge you to re-think by taking a hiatus for a little while (maybe a week, maybe a month), but leaving the door open to possibly resume your participation.

appreciated
As has been stated by others who have known you longer and interacted iwth you more, your insightful comments and shared knowledge have been appreciated by many; including those who tend to lurk more and post less, like me. (I have given more likes- by far - than created posts).

misogyny
@patdavid made the comment about the meaning of “misogynist” and it is something that bothers me, too. A former Prime Minister of Australia, Julia Gillard, also famously (at least here in Oz) redefined misogynist. OK, languages evolve, and Gillard’s definition was added to many dictionaries, but you were pointing to a wider issue: prejudice in general.

prejudice
It would be hopelessly niaive to imagine there aren’t instances of prejudice here, but that is far from making it normative and normal. As has been pointed out, there are mechanisms for moderation, and direct communication lines to the admins/moderators.

nudity/art/porn
There is no doubt about your analysis that there is a colossal gender imbalance between portrayals of nudity in art - both the older arts like painting and sculpture, and newer forms like photography. What the reason(s) for this is/are is certainly a matter for serious study/debate/research. I thank you for starting such debate, and I hope that it can continue, both in this forum and much more widely. Given that it is not a 20th or 21st Centure phenomenon, but one that goes back throughout our known history, I would think that there have been others who have researched this that we can also learn from.

forum etiquette / flames / abuse
As has been pointed out variously, any online forum is a microcosm of our society. We each need to continue to strive to work for community and avoid / prevent / forgive animosity in all its forms. Yes, it is not always possible to remain in a situation which is abusive, and persons who have suffered physical or mental abuse from partners, for example, need to have emergency escape mechanisms. Debate will always exists, however, because we are not all clones. The very word forum goes back to the place of debate, argument, even assassination(!!!). There are times when a thicker skin is called for, or a flame-proofing, or whatever you want to call it. There are also times for standing up for the vulnerable and the oppressed and being the voice for those who are too frightened to speak. “To every thing there is a season: turn, turn, turn…”

the road ahead
@Elle, I do hope you can re-consider, after some hiatus, and continute with us. Your point that there is a white male domination of the forum and of the moderation/administraton of it has some validity. Perhaps a female moderator ought to be appointed? And perhaps you can use the maturity and reasonableness that you have normally demonstrated here in such a role at some point in the future?

If you should abide with your decision to withdraw, we as a community will be poorer for the lack of your knowledge and insight, and for the lack of your being the voice of women, and/or those prejudiced against.

KInd regards

Martin

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I have enjoyed the posts by @elle and will miss her voice. I have a tremendous amount of respect for @patdavid and wish he had taken a more measured approach than to respond while seething.

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I took the afternoon off to cool down.

I’m going to try this in a more measured approach.

If my initial response seemed defensive it’s because I take these things to heart.

Please understand, @Elle that accusations of misogyny are non-trivial. I take great personal offence at this as I am careful to try and be as inclusive as I can and to make everyone feel welcome and an important part of the community. I try to comport myself in a responsible way and do my best to help keep things running well and civilly here. To cast aspersions on my character and elude that I might be dismissive of or prejudiced against women is disheartening to say the least.

I don’t understand where you may have come to this conclusion and I would have hoped that all of my interactions with you up until now both on and off the forum would have shown you that this is not my character. As you are responding this way I can only assume it’s not the case, which also saddens me. I don’t know where I might have failed in demonstrating to you that I value everyone here regardless of sex, color, race, or religion. I’m sorry.

I also need to weigh the effects on, and sensitivities of, many people from varying backgrounds. I’m not sure if you can appreciate how delicate a balance this is and how hard of a job it might be sometimes. The case with your friends anon and @gez were not easy decisions to make. Especially given the depth and breadth of their knowledge on a very complex topic (as you’re aware). Their disparaging attitudes and general anarchic attitude toward the other projects, admins, and mods were demeaning, belittling, and very much against the community guidelines here (with no other apparent desire in some instances other than to be disruptive and troll-ish in their behavior). This was after multiple warnings and pleas to tame the rhetoric and try to maintain civility.

As I’ve said over three times in the past 9 months, I’m saddened by your desire to leave as I still think you (like everyone) enrich the community when your threads don’t devolve too far off topic. (I was actually really interested in many aspects of your nudity thread.)

Thank you for the time you’ve spent so far and discussions. Good fortune in your future!

I need you to please respond here to verify to me that you want your account anonymized, and I’ll do it immediately.

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Disappointing development…

This forum is challenging in quite a few ways, not the least being cultural and linguistic differences. All I can think to say is to implore that all really, really closely read and consider what others write, and not just from their your point of view. I’ve seen what I believe to be quite a few conflicts based on mis-interpretation of others’ intent.

@Elle, if you really want to leave I offer my best wishes to your further imaging endeavors. Your perspective will be missed by bear-of-little-brain here…

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@Elle, if you’re still out there, I’m sorry to see you going. To be honest, many of your posts have been beyond my knowledge level…but I could see that they were well written and covered good subject areas, and I have a goal to go back to review them and improve my knowledge level when I have more time. I’d love to have more to study…

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I think you’ve inadvertantly hit on part of what makes communicating via the internet difficult at times. It wasn’t clear that you were being sarcastic, and those who understood found the comment to be in poor taste.

Blanket statements about groups of people are not the kind of statements that are not tolerable here, in jest or otherwise. Calling the natives of America Indians is disrespectful and in poor taste, as are your Gypsy comments.

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Although I am new here, I am kind of not surprized about this.
It is a great pity that a woman leaves this community since there are so few women who are interested in open source software, don’t you all think so?

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