This (a lot of what you wrote in paragraph above) is exactly what attracts me to darktable. It is like a lab, where there are a lot of tools that I can have fun experimenting with. Of course, I have my more or less consolidated workflows for different types of photography, and I can use it effectively to do a quick edit if I have to. But I also like just to get lost in it and explore, move this or that unfamiliar slider just to understand what it does (there are many of those that are still a mystery to me!), try out this new module that I never used, compare the results obtained using different processes etc.
It is as much a playground as it is a tool of the craft. I keep learning stuff every day, and my workflow keeps changing all the time. The redundancy that is baked into the platform makes it possible. It is absolutely non prescriptive, and this is what makes it a joy to use.
With that I do not mean to say that there is nothing to improve or refine UX-wise. But for me this is the north star: whatever we do to the UX it should not go against this spirit and make it feel “boxed” or limited. There are already a lot of software like that (and it seems to me that Ansel is going down the same path, unfortunately), and I do not think that we need another one. There is more value in darktable staying different then it becoming more like the others.
Exactly. I think a lot of people see darktable, see its power, and then want that same power (especially since it’s free). But then they also want a different editing mentality that, while it can give some interesting suggestions, is mostly incompatible with the lab philosophy (as you put it). That’s fundamental to darktable.
Once I did try Lightroom in fact. It was easier to get started with it, but it felt exceptionally limited in its tools. That shouldn’t happen to darktable, especially because (as you said), it’s much better to have some variation rather than everything becoming limited.
One man’s vision of a Brave New World for darktable, however well-reasoned and deeply formulated, is not necessarily anybody else’s.
The suggestions made, and the way that they were made, were not well received. On the other hand, the statement that, many of us like dt the way it is was dismissed/ignored.
@Pascal_Obry Thanks! do like a lot the way the UI is too! And what I voiced before, I am very happy with the theming functionality!! That beats every non-foss raw editor.
Some history of my experience with Darktable… At first (around 2020-ish), I had no idea Darktable is a RAW photo developer. I thought it’s just a fancy photo organizer I wasn’t familiar with desktop Lightroom or any editor, really, so terms like ‘lighttable’, ‘darkroom’, etc. in the top row meant nothing to me. I proceeded to leave Darktable behind and looked elsewhere. Only later on I’ve realized what Darktable actually is and that it might be my favorite editor from that time on. It might’ve been one of Bruce Williams’ tutorials that made me install DT again, but idk, it’s been too long.
The fact that I’ve missed core functionality is absolutely not to be blamed on the UI design – did I bother to learn more by reading some docs/tutorials? … nope. Did I bother to poke around and see what UI elements do? … also no. Nowadays I’m very comfortable with the UI and every time I think about my oopsie, I get a good grin on my face
Yeah, the official Darktable pages says exactly that.
darktable is created for photographers, by photographers .
I think a lot of things (not just software) are designed by people that don’t (or barely) end up using said product, and it really shows. I sometimes wonder – has anyone tried this product, at all…?
And I also like the way the UI is made. My only real issue could be with the settings and struggling to find what I need (which I think is caused by not opening settings all that often). A search box that would filter through all (or most) settings would be nice, though I’m not sure of implementation possibilities…
Yes, Lightroom was really stifling my creativity because I was not able to adjust the 3rd Order Anisotropy in order to avoid isophotes Phew! Now I am free !!
Sigh… Good God, what is the point of all this? Why do I have to read this? Why are we wasting time discussing stereotypes and prejudices about darktable authors instead of specific suggestions for the UI?
Well, it’s been decided that everyone likes the UI as it is, so we have progressed to some light-hearted teasing.
BTW - another UI issue - does anyone else have a problem with the “Reply” button not responding unless your mouse is an inch to the left of the button?
I’ve found that light-hearted teasing usually only works if you know someone very well and can be sure how it will be received. Otherwise it’s not funny and likely to be received poorly. Not because everyone here is too sensitive but because without facial expressions and face-to-face communication, teasing often blurs into criticism.
Unfortunately it’s a commonly held belief that Darktable is just for nerds (because there are vocal users who love to shout this on social media), and the fact that it has been developed by so-called nerds (also known as smart, generous and motivated people) carries an implied criticism that it’s overly technical and out of touch with most “normies”. This doesn’t exactly help, just like most stereotypes and generalizations are not usually constructive.
Some of us live in countries where it’s popular to mock and disdain technically inclined people, and have to put up with being called a “nerd” as a precursor to being disregarded or laughed at.
As stereotypes go, it’s not the most harmful I’ve seen used on people, but it doesn’t come across as light-hearted.
(As an aside, the person who designed a module including multiple order anisotropy controls is the person who says darktable is too complicated for normal users and designed Ansel, so I find the message a bit mixed.)
I wasn’t familiar with desktop Lightroom or any editor, really, so terms like ‘lighttable’, ‘darkroom’, etc. in the top row meant nothing to me. I proceeded to leave Darktable behind and looked elsewhere. Only later on I’ve realized what Darktable actually is and that it might be my favorite editor from that time on. It might’ve been one of Bruce Williams’ tutorials that made me install DT again, but idk, it’s been too long.
Phew! Now I am free !!