DT versus Ansel, I am careful not to take sides. The future will decide, or not. But I deplore this discussion thread where many would often be better inspired to abstain. Aurélien is rightly criticized for excessively breaking the sugar on other Darktable developers (the famous fifties), but I note bitterly that in this thread, the slander towards Aurélien is going well! Aurélien has spent a lot of energy and time over several years to review the entire color processing in the darkroom, and also to create remarkable modules such as “diffuse and sharpen”. But the rag burned between him and most DT developers and everything he did seems to be forgotten now. And I note that some still dare to speak of non-respect of copyright when Aurélien reuses part of the code of DT in which he has in fact very largely participated both in the creation and in the improvement of performance… a little strong coffee anyway. And I think that’s really going too far!
Sorry to have been a little a little unclear here :
Everything he has done in the past (before the fork) has still the right authorship, nothing has changed in this regard. The only thing we deplore is that the code from some other devs of dt, committed after the fork, have been copy-paste by him in his project and committed under his own name without further notice. This quite unfair for the work of the devs…
I think he makes it hard to be grateful for some. Rather than just moving on and axing some code from his fork he will go out of his way to say removing this f-ing useless shitty code etc etc. in the comments.
I think he sets the stage to toil in his own brilliance
A lot if us have spent years putting time into the project in various ways. Is his energy some how more valuable than ours?
Uhm… checking liberapay… uhm… yep!
That’s a piece of white paper with something obstructing the view.
Interesting read, I haven’t really seen this thread before.
Usually I try pretty much every image editing software that comes my way but in this case I will pass. Why? Because telling potential users multiple times on the homepage that their fork is better than the original is just a childish no-go. There is no need to talk about that decision, because otherwise, what was the point in creating a fork?
“D’oh”, said the yellow man.
Also I think Ansel Adams is heavily overrated. I don’t like cults. Also, I tried his techniques in photo school back in the 90ies and realised that modern film emulsions and developers - e.g. Fuji Neopan 400 in Kodak XTOL if anyone cares - would run circles around the old stuff that Ansel had at his disposal. He had to invent some overly complicated process to get something decent. It was absolutely neccessary, but time has moved on. Some ideas are still valid, for example “expose for the result”.
“D’oh”, said the yellow man, again.
And this is where we get back to darktable. Yes, it may be overly complicated at some points but that is what was needed at the time. I think dt is at a point where feature-wise it is at a peak. Tool-complexity is high. Lot’s of sliders are “useless” until you dial them in, put them into a style and be happy. I can edit most of my images by just touching the Exposure slider and nothing else and still have a coherent look. Only took me short of three years to get there …
I’ll stick with darktable because I’d rather put my trust into a large group of developers that respect each other even in disagreement than depend on a single artist who might change his mind on a whim.
There are many possible reasons for creating a fork that have nothing to do with the best interests of the users (or am I just saying what you are suggesting out loud?)
Pebbles are fascist
Pretty much, yes.
Most forks are the result of “I can do this way better”.
There are valid forks that are neccessary because the original software forgot that configuration is a thing. This is not the problem with darktable, is it?
Hello,
I have to admit that you are right in your different analyses, having said that “who sows the wind reaps the storm”.
I honestly think that it is time to move on, to delete this post in the same way that Aurelien should delete his last article on his site (in French).
I invite you to communicate differently.
Greetings from Brussels.
Christian, A Darktable user
I agree, it would be best to get rid of this thread. Aurélien has created a toxic atmosphere – and while he is now gone, the atmosphere is still here. We need to get the poison out of our systems.
Am I witnessing the self-implosion of another good piece of software going live through a broadcast session of group psychotherapy?
That would be sad because I only discovered Darktable and Ansel a few weeks ago.
Transparency (to users and to the world) is a good thing when it’s used intelligently, not when it’s a personal or collective rant.
The poison has already been spread. Deleting this post would aggravate the situation. Simply stopping bullying AP would be enough.
This is an assumption, please back it with some data.
I don’t think there is such a thing as an “invalid fork.”
Forking is essential to Free Software.
I intended to post this a couple days ago when I saw things taking a turn for the worse. I thought it was not my place. Motivated by Robert Cheyrou’s and Luke Drake’s comments (pertinent parts quoted below) I’m stepping forward to say what’s on my mind.
I’m a recent and avid user of darktable.
I’ve benefited significantly from help in this forum.
Yet I am dismayed at the virulence, raging, and ranting going on in this thread concerning Aurelien/Ansel, all in a context where the target–Aurelien–is absent and thus unable to counter or present his perspective.
This has all the look and feel of a mob attack, one where the participants are intoxicated breathing their own exhaust. We don’t need double-digit IQ to see what that says and where it leads to. Is that what you want?
It is impossible for someone in my shoes to separate facts from projections, gaslighting, and such. I can however confidently, with evidence in my hand, form conclusions about the character and temperament of those engaging in the attacks, in a mob, on a person in his absence.
This has already dimmed my regard and opinion for those participating in the attacks on a person that’s absent. Were it to continue it’d guarantee I (and others in my shoes) would step away from use and support of darktable and any positive outlook toward it and its community. Is that what you want?
Quoting Robert Cheyrou: "But I deplore this discussion thread where many would often be better inspired to abstain… And I think that’s really going too far!
And, quoting Luke Drake
If I was a mod, I would lock this thread. It is not adding any value.
Mica, I find your whole post to be very passive aggressive. And you are putting intentions into my words that are pure misinterpretation on your side. Maybe my wording was not specifically tailored to be understood by you, but then just ask me what I meant instead of putting your made-up meaning into my words.
Point being, there is nothing I have to proof to you. In case you missed it, I was presenting personal observations, not a scientific study. When did a casual thread on pixls have to adhere to wikipedia standards?
Most replies since people posted his article were about its contents, how Ansel was being handled, differences with darktable and so on. I don’t believe there was a big disrespect towards AP. In the end we’ve had a lot of valid points and opinions put forward and most don’t fall under those categories like (mob attack), (raging) etc, it seems a bit of an exaggeration.
Nonsense. There’s plenty of evidence of the opposite. Just to cite one:
No one person can create a “toxic atmosphere.”
It requires the participation and complicity of several, including through their own errors of omission and/or commission.
And if that “atmosphere is still here” in the absence of the person being blamed for “creating it”, it confirms beyond refutation the complicity and participation of those others and their role in the creation and continued nurturing and maintenance of that toxic atmosphere.
I’ve nothing more to add to what’s already said and communicated above and in my previous comment.
I’d be willing to submit my DT DB to a survey if it could help to have an “unbiased” glimpse (if it’s possible) in how user are really using the software.
Setting-up the survey and exploiting/mining the data is a lot of work I guess though…