Now, I been thinking to returning to photography for myself. I know a bit of what I’m looking for, full manual control as option. F-Stop, ISO, and all the other things. I intend to do long exposure landscape, as well as portrait of people and animal. Maybe a way to get blur around the center, and sharp within center as part of people portrait. And compatibility with FOSS software like Darktable. Yes, I have a tripod here.
Sounds like you would be OK with almost any modern MILC. I’m not sure where Canon CR3 support sits at this point (others can chime in on that).
I think any interchangeable lens camera made in the last 5 years (or more) will do what you want.
I have a Nikon Z50, which is one of the cheapest options in the Nikon system, and it meets all of your requirements. But Canon, Sony and Fujifilm all have similarly priced models with comparable specs. I’d suggest going to a camera shop and seeing which one appeals most to you (feels good in the hand etc). You can’t go wrong with any of them technically.
Note that for portraits with a nicely blurred background you need a fast lens, something with a widest f-stop of f2 or wider. Nikon’s 40mm f2 lens is good for this, and both small and economical. But again, all the other companies have cheap fast lenses too.
For around $1000 US you can get a nice camera with a decent kit lens. All the companies offer better (and more expensive) cameras and bodies, but they won’t improve your results much unless you’re doing something special: sports, birds, macro etc).
Start with a budget and then try to match must have features to that, then check for lens offerings from both the manufacturer and third party developers.
I have only a couple of must have features, that being weather sealing and a-mount lens stabilization if in body image stabilization isn’t available.
Contrary to what others may think, a camera from even a decade ago still produces great images…but that’s all relative to what your expectations are.
Besides…it can be fixed in processing, right?
What’s your budget? How big and heavy?
A used DSLR is probably the bang-for-the-buck winner. A crop MILC is probably the smallest and lightest option.
Do you have sympathy with a particular brand? Do you know if particular models fit your hands well? Anything that would make you pick up the camera is a good thing.
I was in a similar situation two years ago. I kept browsing camera specs and reading reviews, and in retrospect I had no frigging idea what I was looking for, so I learned a lot since then.
Because of this, I would recommend that you go for a budget option (as others said, basically anything will do), a used body with 1–2 lenses you are interested in, use it for a few years, then you will be in a much better position to make a decision and you will not be paying a premium for a new camera.
Personally, what I learned about my own preferences are the following:
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I value compactness of my kit above all. If the whole package is too large, it stays at home. It is better to have a small camera body with a pancake prime lens on me than trying to lug everything and getting frustrated — sure, I will miss a lot of shots, but if I bring a heavy kit it kills the joy of photography for me so I will not bring anything.
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Ergonomics matters. I want a lot of customizable dials and buttons and be able to mold the camera to my preferences, so I can find everything blindly.
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I love IBIS. Not bringing a tripod is so convenient, and I can always improvise something when needed.
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Camera bodies are way less important than lenses. (But if this is your first ILC, you will not know what lenses you will prefer — a chicken and egg problem best resolved by going budget).
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Wish I had weather sealing. My next kit will be weather sealed.
(But keep in mind that these are my preferences, yours could be very different.)
Long exposure landscape and landscape almost any camera will do and the additional money you’ll toss in will maybe get you ease of use (light weight, IBIS, more onscreen help to manual settings like over-exposure zebra, focus assist frames or threshold indicators…), DR and better glass.
For Bokeh in portraiture you’ll look for very wide aperture high quality glass and/or a bigger sensor (m4/3 as a minimum bur APS-C and Full Frame will do better)
here is a chart found in a post in dpreview forum to get the numbers straight
One last point is, when you said “full manual control” if you intend to set focus manually as well and are short on money, you may want to consider vintage fully mechanical glass.
I can say that on a 20mpx FF sensor the resolving power of the ones I’m using is adequate… There are already a few threads on this forum about the subject of vintage glass and you’ll get valuable insights if you read those.
There are so many different ideologies around cameras. It depends a lot on how you want to use it, but its also an identity question. A Leica M9 is a very different statement than a Sony A7 III, but theyre both in the same price range.
For someone new to digital photography, Id recommend an older crop DSLR, with a kit zoom lens (typically 18-55mm approximately), and three primes - one wide angle lens (24mm or less), one standard (35-40mm), and one medium tele (70-135mm). For the primes you can get old manual lenses and use a matching adapter. I would also get a an on-camera flash - many people dont use flashes anymore, but I think its a very good thing to learn to use it.
Such a kit will not be too expensive, and give a lot of options, and you will learn what type of photo you will do or later.
Ofcourse, you can buy yourself into an expensive mirrorless system right away, such as fuji X, but the cost will be on a totally different level if you want extra lenses.
If portability is very important, then look into older Olympus micro 4/3 cameras or the Nikon 1 system. Both options are not too expensive. But there are settings where DSLR (a mirror-camera) is a good advantage compared to mirrorless, still, in my opinion.
Olympus micro four thirds cameras are less likely to have problems with highlights when processed with darktable. I think Olympus cameras work well with darktable.
Seriously consider crop-sensor. I started my current photographic life with a Sony aps-c, which I soon upgraded to another with better functionality, eg ibis and better autofocus. I made a collection of zoom and prime lenses that covered almost all of my needs. Then I went full-frame.
The camera is bigger and heavier and more expensive. The lenses are bigger and heavier and much more expensive. It is a different ball game to a much greater extent than I had thought out.
I do really like my Sony a7iv, and I am not going back: it really does make it easier for me to take better pictures. But I had a better relationship with my cute a6500. I loved its small and light dimensions and it’s longer reach with the 1.5 inch crop. And it is still my going-on-a-trip camera.
The Photographic Eye youtube guy said something to the effect that it is better to use a camera you love. And that’s personal, and nothing to do with one set of specs beating another.
This is critical! If you don’t yet specifically know what you like, you need to experiment. Buy an older DSLR, MILC, Film Camera, whatever strikes your fancy, and try it out. A Sony A6100, Nikon D7500, Fuji X-T20, Olympus O-M5 II, A7R2, would be reasonable starting points. You can buy them used on MPB or KEH and try them for a while, then sell what you don’t like.
Only once you know what you like does it begin to make sense to buy a recent model. (But the trick is, all of these older cameras produce absolutely state-of-the-art images. Nobody can tell from their photos that they’re older models. So you’re just saving yourself some cash and convenience features, but no compromise on image quality.)
In terms of lenses, start with a kit zoom and maybe a prime, and discover from there. You’ll quickly learn whether you prefer to wider or longer, and can then add a wide zoom or long zoom or portrait prime or macro lens, or whatever else you like.
For me, this process took several years. And at least for me, it was great fun, too!
I’m gonna buck the collective wisdom and recommend a full-frame camera. If you’re going to shoot landscapes, you’re in high-dynamic -range scenes and you’ll just get better coverage of that range with FF. I was a lot less frustrated with my captures when I switched from APS-C to FF.
After that, I’d pay more attention to the attendant lenses for the application. I only have experience with the Nikkor Z lenses, and their kit 24-70/f4 is pretty good, but you might want wider for landscapes. Generally, Nikon seems to have less trouble making resolute lenses with the 42mm Z throat.
Thank you all for the valuable insight, I will try to gather all of those and make a decision at some point. I do forgot to neglect to mention that I used Canon CR3 before, and it felt really comfortable on my hand, given that I have a bit more of “womanly” hand (for the lack of better words).
That Canon CR3 has a damaged mirror, and that’s something I’m going to avoid, so it seems that a mirrorless camera is something I plan to use so that accident will never happen again. There’s a light streak that doesn’t seem to be repairable.
My budget is in $500-$1000 range, somewhere there.
Go to the store, hold a couple of bodies in your hands. Choose the one that feels the best.
What about if you have tried both PASM and manual dials for a few years and still don’t know which you prefer?
Honestly, I don’t actually know what I’d choose for my next camera, and it’s something I thought I’d have figured out by now.
So far, I think my priorities would be a compact/lightweight system and weather sealing. Maybe IBIS as well. Other than that, I adapt to whatever the camera has.
I assume you mean just just want an M mode for manual shooting, but just in case you mean you want specific dials for aperture, shutter speed and ISO, your options are much more limited to either a Fuji X-T or Nikon Zfc (although I think Canon is coming out with a retro model next year).
The nice thing about the retro designs is that you can program them to work a bit like PASM cameras if you want, but also use the dedicated dials if you want to slow down and feel like everything is manual.
This is important to keep in mind. I use Nikon cameras because I started with a Nikon. I’m don’t think it’s objectively better or worse, but over decades I’ve adapted to this system and now it feels very natural to me. Nothing wrong with experimenting with different makes and models etc, but there’s also something to be said for just settling in and getting to know how to use a single camera.
The thing I have to remind myself of (still) is to take the time to consider features my camera has that I’m not using. It’s easy to get stuck on a particular way of working, and these tools provide a lot of options that might open new opportunities if we were better aware of them.
My Nikon Z50 has two dials that I set to control aperture and shutter speed, and holding down a button gives me direct access to ISO as well. True, they’re not stuck on the top of the body like the retro bodies, but they provide the same level of control I think. Maybe not as tactile, but on the other hand I can change all three settings with my eye in the viewfinder.
some other camera will have customizable controls that can be tied to ISO and Aperture (F-stop) or such for example on my very cheap Sony A7 front and back dials (accessible with thumb and index finger) while in M mode are assigned to Shutter speed and Aperture. The back flat wheel style control is by default linked to ISO in all modes.
That gives you ISO/F-stop/Speed accessible via direct controls without having to take your eye of the viewfinder.
I’m not describing this to promote this camera in particular but just to exemplify that many enthusiast aimed bodies will have customisable controls and the main thing is to chose the layout (buttons/wheels/dials) and check in the manual (or by trying) if the desired configuration is possible. You are no stuck to fixed layouts with controls name engraved on it …
To digress further more the A7 have a special EV dedicated dial at the top and using it mainly in Aperture priority mode, manual ISO and manual Aperture control (vintage glass) it’s quite convenient for me ! But in M mode, the dial is just useless… unassigned… so to me, having engraved controls is not a plus.
Yes, of course, the dials on most modern cameras can be configured to whatever you want, but it is a different ergonomic experience to a “full manual” retro style camera. I have an X-S10 with PASM dial as well as an X-T5 with retro dials. I can program the X-S10 to work almost exactly the same as the X-T5, but the experience still feels very different. I actually worked quicker with the X-S10, whereas I like to take my eye away from the viewfinder on the X-T5 and look down over the dials to make my selection. It slows me down, which I quite like when doing landscape or tripod work. Keeping your eye in the viewfinder is not always the goal.
I agree with this. It’s very helpful to get to the point where you know where all the settings you care about are without really thinking about it.