I scower the internet for "weather-test benchmarking", but alas...

Hardware
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Right, between a rock + a hard place.
I am a photographer in need of a digital MILC with two features:

  1. compactness (around the size of an E-M5/a6000, can be bigger, can be smaller, just giving a perspective)
  2. weather sealing above all (autofocus, battery-life, EVF, what have you, are all irrelevant vs. weather sealing for me)

I am… right now, at an impasse - deciding between the OM Systems OM-5 Mark II, and the Sigma fp/fpL

they’re both weather-sealed, they’re both compact, they’re both “perfect”, except, I don’t know how weather-sealed the Sigma fp is, there is no IP-rating, but the OM-5 II has an IP-rating, which presents a problem:

Is the Sigma’s full-frame sensor worth giving up ease of mind?

I am a street photographer in a country where being a street photographer is risky, I have absolutely no way of utilizing raincovers, nor do I feel like I want to bother with raincovers, I need a camera that’ll survive strong rainfall, sandstorms, duststorms, paint vapour from a nearby construction site - and the likes, alongside a weather-sealed lens, that I can immediately hide in my jacket once I’m done shooting

has anyone ever tested the Sigma fp for how weather-resistant it is? a Sigma representative sent me this video (https://youtu.be/8EvLMg9NiTE?si=2_pIj_GGjqlPvy2x) and told me that the Sigma fp was tested to the same degree, but I’m not sure what kind of ingress-protecting rating this gets it, as they don’t disclose the specifics

I’m somewhat afraid of the OM-5 because I’m afraid of micro-four-thirds in general, a MFT sensor is not much bigger than the 1" sensor that I have in my smartphone and I quite like being able to achieve image separation without needing at minimum an f/1.2 lens at focal lengths shorter than 100mm

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btw: no amount of weather sealing willing make a camera survive in too much rain or something. I recommend the lensrental blog posts on “Gear people took to burning man” as an example. there comes the point where you have to put the camera into some plastic bag style thing that clamps to front of your lens at the front to protect the camera more.

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exactly, which is why IP ratings are so important: they tell you just how much a camera is designed to withstand before it becomes unrealistic, and you can temper your expectations accordingly

but when a camera manufacturer doesn’t give out an IP rating like Olympus or Leica… the consumer is… SOL

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If weather sealing is important, go with the OM.

What do you intend to photograph? For most genres of photography, the MFT sensor size is perfectly adequate. Also remember that a smaller sensor means smaller lenses, too! The complete system will be much smaller compared to the FP.

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What do you intend to photograph?

everything, to be honest, I don’t really plan to limit myself to one area of photography, and I am aware of the fp’s lack of a mechanical shutter but the sensor readout is still fast enough for my usecase

Also remember that a smaller sensor means smaller lenses, too! The complete system will be much smaller

here’s the second problem, it might mean a smaller lens… if I forget about equivalency, if I don’t forget about equivalency… I only have about four/five f1.2 PRO options that are all relatively speaking - as large as their f/2.4 FF counterparts, this is assuming I’m not gonna be shooting at f/2.8 which is where a lot of the Olympus PRO lenses become sharp according to Robin Wong, at which point I have for all purposes a comically oversized f/5.6 lens

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Perhaps a cynical take: If the sigma fp has achieved a good IP rating, they’d say so. The fact that they don’t say so tells you all you need to know.

Welcome to the forum!

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You make a good point, but I also think it might be a money thing, afterall, the Canon EOS R1 is not IP-rated, but I feel like many professionals will vouch for its weather-sealing, my understanding is that since IP standards are legitimate engineering certificates you need to spend a decent chunk of cash getting the licensing approved by the relevant government and agencies to actually advertise your product as being IP-rated

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you! I feel like I’ve found my people here.

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If that is all you need, I would go with a used Olympus E-M5, mark ii or iii. Much cheaper, same size, AF will of course be dated, but the sensor is great, and it is also weather sealed. If you like the micro 4/3 ecosystem and invest in lenses, you can always upgrade for a new OM-5 / OM-3 later on.

I would approach this from a different angle: determine the budget, what kind of photos you want to take, what lenses you need, and then narrow down (and get an Olympus :wink:).

Sure, weather sealing is important and helps a lot, but that’s not the only way cameras get damaged: they can be dropped, lost, or stolen too. If you are very concerned about equipment damage, minimize the amount of money invested.

For that, you will need a versatile kit of lenses. Macro, street, portrait, and wildlife photography all use different kinds of lenses. Focusing on the camera body is a red herring.

It would be better to admit that you don’t know what you want to photograph. That is fine, many of us started that way. You want to make sure that you can try out different kinds of lenses on your budget. Micro 4/3 has a lot of relatively cheap lenses, so it would not be a bad choice.

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For me the weather sealing of cameras has been a determining factor in camera choice for the last 20 years – and in these years I’ve never been let down by the Olympus/OM cameras.

You have already gotten some good advise above.
If you’re specially focused on large aperture lenses, though, I would just comment that I’ve always found the 1.2 lenses in the m43 system to be too large and cumbersome to be attractive. However, the (relative) newcomer 20/1.4 is in a different league, and its field of view could possibly be an alternative for your street photography.

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Oh boy, that topic.

If you want a small system, you will need to use small lenses. Small lenses are not bright.

If instead you want to maximize light gathering, you need the brightest lenses possible. Bright lenses are not small.

Only you can decide that tradeoff. From my own experience, super-bright lenses are overrated. A good f/1.4 on a small sensor is plenty bright, and gives more than enough background blur for my tastes. But, tastes vary, and yours is no doubt different to mine.

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If that is all you need, I would go with a used Olympus E-M5, mark ii or iii. Much cheaper,

I prefer new, considering the terrible state of used in my market, that, and I feel like I have a moral obligation to support OM System if I do go M4/3, considering the fact that they’re a hair away from bankruptcy 2.0 if their sales figures and inactive support team are anything to go by… also the older Olympus cameras are only rated IPX1, so I’m not certain they’re really up to the task in comparison to the newer OM line, it would be no different than the Sigma, would it?

Sure, weather sealing is important and helps a lot, but that’s not the only way cameras get damaged: they can be dropped, lost, or stolen too. If you are very concerned about equipment damage, minimize the amount of money invested.

Not particularly concerned about these variables, as they’re more of a “if it happens, it happens” thing, it follows the same sort of philosophy of not getting anything nice in life because you might be robbed, and idk if I subscribe to that way of thinking

For that, you will need a versatile kit of lenses. Macro, street, portrait, and wildlife photography all use different kinds of lenses. Focusing on the camera body is a red herring.
It would be better to admit that you don’t know what you want to photograph. That is fine, many of us started that way. You want to make sure that you can try out different kinds of lenses on your budget. Micro 4/3 has a lot of relatively cheap lenses, so it would not be a bad choice.

Hold on, Tamas, I’m getting the message that you think I’m a newbie photographer? I assure you I am not haha, I know what a lens kit is, I’ve been shooting for years, I’m looking for an upgrade from a Canon EOS 6D

it is hardly me “not knowing” what I want to photograph, its just the fact that I don’t particularly believe in wanting to photograph “something” specific, I’ve shot wildlife, portrait, street, landscape, cars, nature, architecture, I am primarily a street photographer, but I have never felt compelled to assign this to myself as a sort of personality or intent of photography, I plan to cover every kind of photography I can, including cosplay and photojournalism in the upcoming years once I can afford to

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I would just comment that I’ve always found the 1.2 lenses in the m43 system to be too large and cumbersome to be attractive.

Yeah, it kind of defeats the point, dunnit? and if I go with something slower I will lose out on image separation

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Yup, I know about the whole light thing, but to be honest with a modern sensor I’m more worried about the image separation than I am the low-light performance

when an f/2 lens becomes f/4 it suddenly becomes near impossible to get those luscious backgrounds, which can be a powerful artistic tool - and I suppose I can supplement with longer focal lengths, but my favourite kind of lens is a 24mm one, and I’m just not sure what kind of image separation I"m meant to achieve with the Olympus 12-100mm F4 IS Pro for example (I explicitly chose that lens over the 12mm f/2 as that one is not weather-sealed)

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No offense meant, I misunderstood the context.

Then you know what you want. The only thing you will be missing with micro 4/3 is very shallow DOF, if you want that you need full frame.

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No offense meant, I misunderstood the context.

No offense taken! Thank you for taking the time to help me :smiley:

The only thing you will be missing with micro 4/3 is very shallow DOF

This might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me, I’ve been watching channels like Robin Wong and Thomas Eisl’s for a while now, and I always see the “everything is in focus” effect from M4/3 cameras whenever the subject is not very close or the lens does not zoom in quite far enough

of course, exceptions are made by halo lenses like the PRO line or some Voigtlanders which go above and beyond to reach apertures such as f/0.8, but the problem is that those lenses limit me to a select few focal lengths, and I cannot shake the fact that they all can’t render images with ‘3D depth’ as well as a $90 50mm f/1.8 EF can

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I would not say that. For 12-16mm (equiv 24-32mm) it is pretty easy to get whole landscapes in focus at f/4, but using eg the 25mm f/1.7, you get a reasonably shallow DoF. Just not a lot of bokeh, stuff will be blurry, not not blurred out of recognition. I personally like that, I like to keep a bit of context.

For portrait-style bg blur, you need eg the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 or something similar.

If you already have a full frame camera, just double the focal length and close down the aperture to 50%. Eg if you want to see what the 45mm f/1.8 would look like, roughly, use 90mm at f/3.6. It is approximate but a reasonably good starting point.

Light, per se, is no longer an issue for me on micro 4/3. I happily shoot up to ISO 3200 or even more if I need to.

Personally I love micro 4/3. I used to have a full frame DSLR before that I liked, but would always end up leaving at home because it was too bulky. I enjoy photography now with my Panasonic GX9.

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not not blurred out of recognition. I personally like that, I like to keep a bit of context.

I agree with you, it is actually not my intent to blur everything out for the ‘looks’ (people call this ‘Toneh’, I believe)
I just think that a greater control over DoF when I need it serves as a particularly powerful tool, there have been cases where I’ve had, for example, light reflections off a window where going extreme with the aperture would have created an effect akin to an abstract painting, only to be disappointed that my APS-C camera (at the time) simply could not soldier through, it’s also really nice for visual effects in artistic stuff like cosplay photography

Personally I love micro 4/3. I used to have a full frame DSLR before that I liked, but would always end up leaving at home because it was too bulky. I enjoy photography now with my Panasonic GX9.

oh man, I’ve been eyeing those small Lumixes for a long long time, it annoys me to no end that Panasonic has decided for whatever reason to stop making them… it also annoys me that OM System abandoned the PEN series, but I have the sneaking suspicion that I’m by no means the first person to complain about this :smiley:

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Indeed you are not alone, but note that this line of cameras don’t have the weather sealing you mention in your first post, so I guess they would be out too.

You can blur these out with a micro 4/3 prime too, you just have to have a longer focal length, so you need to stand away a bit, and focus on something else, maybe at infinity.

You may already know this, but extremely shallow DoF requires very careful composition. Eg on full frame with a 85mm f/1.4 lens, it will be tricky to get both eyes of the subject in focus unless the person is facing the camera exactly. So, while we are all tempted to bokeh out like crazy, in practice I found it to be less interesting.

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As an experienced photographer, I’m certain you would learn to work within the limitations of any camera system. OM Systems makes fine cameras and some models are rated for weather sealing.

I shoot with a Lumix G9 that I purchased used this summer. Lenses are 12-35 f/2.8 ii, 35-100 f/2.8 ii, and 25 f/1.7. Except for the 25 mm lens, everything is weather-sealed. I am very happy with this set; the glass is great and IBIS is wonderful. The kit fits in my small camera bag, and is easy to carry. I selected this over the equivalents from Olympus for slightly lower price (at the time) and more video-recording options. But it was a “close call,” as they say.

Regarding IBIS, both OM Systems and Panasonic have what I consider to be the best stabilization available. Small sensor size is a benefit here. As an example, I recently posted a photo taken at 50 mm (100 FF), hand-held at one second. Link here.

I am not aware of a weather resistance rating from Panasonic. So for your case I would suggest the OM Systems option.

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Another vote for OM Systems, it seems like I will probably have to get the OM-5 II

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