You are way to kind…
2 Likes
@Eigil_Skovgaard Okay, there are interesting arguments here, worthwhile of discussion. So let’s go.
First, regarding the software. My guess to the cause of your frustration is that you had wrong expectations from the start. Please correct me where I’m wrong, but I think this is very typical:
This is the crux: no developer of RawTherapee (nor ART, nor darktable, if I presume), is intending to compete with commercial software. Read that again, please, because it is vital to understanding why “we” act as we do. We are merely trying to develop a piece of software that does something very well. If users think it is valuable for their purpose then we’re happy. We could not care less about market share, nor trying to be as good as any commercial party. There is no business plan, no PDCA, no shareholders, etc. It’s Just Good Software™ that “we” like making and some people might like using.
This idea is complemented (or even driven) by the way our projects work: we’re all unpaid volunteers and anybody can help out. Do you want to contribute code? Go ahead, we happily accept pull requests for RawTherapee. Do you want to contribute documentation or make tutorials? Same thing. Do you just want to test functions and find bugs? Sure, that’s what this forum is for (and GitHub). Do you have great ideas but cannot code? Ah well, there things get a little murky.
Do you want to just bring up new ideas for improvement? Great, new ideas are always welcome – really, they are! However, if you understood my previous paragraphs, it should be clear that if you’re not directly contributing yourself, you have to deal with the available developers and their judgment of your ideas. These are the people that know the project and know the difficulty level of the work involved with bringing your ideas to life. And since they are voluntarily contributing code (= time and effort) to the project, it is only them that can decide whether they want to spend their personal time on coding these ideas. Knowing this, could you accept “no” or “not now” for an answer?
Second, there is something to be said about communication. I already explained to you in a private message what my point of view is regarding my own position and attitude towards the community and the RawTherapee project. If you do not understand me, or really think I have things backwards, I’ll never shy away from a talk. I’d like to think the same goes for many other members on this forum too.
So far you have only replied with anger and accusation. You have not (publicly) tried to understand the viewpoint of others. Any chance for a positive outcome quickly vanishes then.
As for how you were treated by @paperdigits , I would like to quote what I also send you in private:
(…) I strongly believe that if you have a personal quarrel with Mica, you should talk to him in private first. Public accusation is very much frowned upon (and not in the spirit of the rules of this forum). If you can’t come to a mutual understanding of how to keep going forward, you can always contact another admin.
You are on a public forum with a very accepting and broad-minded crowd - at least that is my impression - but there are still rules as to what you can and cannot do. And yes, the moderators and admins are the judge of that. There are proper ways to complain about that and publicly nailing somebody to the wall is not one of them. Nor is berating people as being “socially isolated types” acting with “childish stupidity”. If you cannot abide by this “tyranny”, you should, indeed, leave.
(Edit: edited a few phrases)
18 Likes
I’m only technically a moderator (never asked for the privilegies, never used them), but as this showed up in my inbox, I had to review the thread in question.
What I think we have here is a mix of two issues — a cultural clash and an attempt to push Pixls towards Reddit-like discussions. We can have a sensible conversation about the former, but I don’t think anyone here would appreciate the latter.
So if you disagree with the culture where volunteers are entitled to calling the shots on design decisions and if you gravitate towards aggressive conversations, you will find Pixls an inferior platform to talk to people. Fortunately, there’s an abundance of platforms where you might feel right at home.
9 Likes
Hello Eigil,
Thank you for your memorandum … I do not follow the RT threads, so I was not aware of you until you posted in the lounge.
Having read the two threads in question as well as this one, I do need to agree with the general sentiment expressed by others here … that pixls.us is largely supportive, courteous, and, above all, community. A community, by its very definition is concerned with the well-being of all its inhabitants.
One of the characteristics of community is that we do not always agree with one another on everything. We can misunderstand, or have genuinely conflicting points-of-view. What makes community special, however, is that individual disagreements never prevent the ongoing community. I am a Lutheran Pastor here in Australia, and I have just this week been preaching on a verse from Saint Paul (Ephesians 4:32) which may be summarised as: Be kind to each other, compassionate, and forgiving, remembering that you, too, have been forgiven.
Really, that is all that the moderators and the “rules” of our community are asking. When I do the wrong thing on this forum (and I have, in the past), and that is pointed out to me, I will strive not to repeat it. Where there is misunderstanding, let us seek to express with clarity what we are trying to communicate. Remember also that for many here, English is not their first language. Moreover, some part of society (and me at least on this forum) are on the Autism Spectrum, and do not read “between the lines” very well, if at all.
Though you could take @prokoudine’s suggestion and search elsewhere for discussion, suggestions and feature-requests are never a bad idea. Just remember the reasons already given why the implementation of these may not always happen.
We would be poorer as a community if there were not a wide variety of opinions: every member has a different set of go-to software. Some developers on github and here would possibly like to “compete” against commercial software, but I cannot say who they might be. However I can say that developers in our community are willing to listen and to respond. Though their response may not always fit in with your preferences, you are certainly free to change to different software that meets your needs.
So, please keep expressing your thoughts and opinions and feature requests. Please be kind. Please forgive the offences you feel from members of our community, and please graciously consider how you might help make our community better than it already is.
10 Likes
This guy comes from nowhere, feels superior and entitled, is rude and blunt, always write in a negative manner. I suspect he is a trolling teen-ager.
I hope post of @martin.scharnke will change his mind.
1 Like
Well, you were the one who called yourself a moderator - Can that title mean anything else than - moderator? - i.e. an experienced sane individual who will moderate in cases where things get fucked up for real. The only examples of corruption and derailing are from your hand.
Of course that comment where you claimed to possess such extraordinary skills disappeared within a minute - very appropriate. Was it manipulative or just wishful thinking?
I was banned twice for calling you “names”, though it’s an interesting fact that the cause will last for the rest of your life.
And to those claiming to have contacted me in private. I have not received such messages if we are talking writing to my private mail address. Then you would have had my answers for sure.
And I can see that the official written goal for developing alternative free source has just been found, dusted off and repeated. What else can you say - not much.
I am pleased to say that my opinions stated in my memorandum above are shared with other seriously working photographers. You can’t ask for more.
Now back to Adobe Camera Raw.
Roel,
So, you call that private mails, when it’s still a thread in this forum. Nice. I see.
For the sake of my integrity I would never regard messages from you to be private or sincere.
I simply don’t trust you!
And for that reason I expected everything you wrote to be a public matter. And it finally became.
I can’t use your false kindness and moderation.
That’s why I raised (raise) my index finger - symbolic of course.
You are welcome.
And I don’t share your religion. Please don’t include me in your flock.
Ödmjukhet är en dygd. Tycker du verkligen dina kommentarer är okej?
1 Like
Sæt dig ind i årsag og virkning, Peter.
Private messages look just like normal threads, but they are not readable by others.
In any case, working with open-source software developers is a bit like herding cats. You can’t merely tell them what to do and why it’s better, you have to motivate them, otherwise they will dismiss your suggestion.
Insulting them or their work is counterproductive, so… simply don’t do that.
4 Likes
CarVac,
Private conversation with an avatar has nothing to do with privacy or confidence. If you don’t want to reveal your true face, identity etc. you are just another number from the internet.
And btw. you don’t need to explain obvious technical details to me.
If images and explanations are insufficient as motivation - then maybe other considerations are blocking the dialog. The fear of admitting shortcomings in the functionality of your creation for example? - or admitting you are unable to design or code certain features?
is it an insult to point at the advantages of generally accepted functionality not found with the creation at hand?
Although I hide myself behind this groking avatar, I’m at your disposal to talk to you face to face, via whatever video meeting platform you may want to use, and try to explain some things that I see you don’t understand.
Just send me your phone number, or anything else that put us face to face. (In a private message, of course).
Gadolf,
I don’t need your “private” help. I have the private supporters I need.
You are simply an entity on a forum on the internet - it can’t get more impersonal.
But you could shorten that distance by writing under a picture of yourself and reveal your true name. Why is anonymity the generally accepted way to meet others here?
I would be more confident with your appearance and could get an impression of your personality if I could relate to a well exposed portrait and a real name - and you would probably act more like your true self.
Sorry, you don’t get to choose how others behave or want to represent themselves. That’s no different in real life than it is on the internet. For all I know you are actually Queen Margrethe. The only thing you need to trust in, is that people want to have civil discourse with each other. For the rest, you can just look at how people behave to judge whether you like them. And well, it seems you’re good at that.
In my case, despite my best intentions and good faith, and continuous attempts to keep a constructive and open dialogue, I seem to have gone over to the dark side from your perspective. Very little I can do to change that, so I’ll be moving on. You probably like that better than my continuous replies anyway 
8 Likes
He’s just a troll, stop giving him the attention he so obivously desires.
Ignore him and he’ll hopefully just go away. He doesn’t like it here, anyway.
5 Likes
Absolutely, Roel.
But can I trust that you will stay out of my sight and never bother me again with yourself-righteous style?
Hardly - your word is not really solid.
But just before you leave: If I am the queen of Denmark to you, then my guess for an alter ego for you would be Joe Biden. Another man without a clue.
Enough is Enough. User is silenced for 2 months.
12 Likes
If you’d like to engage in honest in-person discussion about these, I suggest you attend a Libre Graphics Meetup conference when (if?) certain global issues become less problematic.
It’s more an aspect of “how does this help my own workflow?” The devs are quite possibly the people getting the most out of the way their own program works—who are you to say that x result is better?
Personal tastes and expectations play a role too. darktable devs might prefer darktable’s output to Filmulator’s, and I certainly prefer Filmulator’s output to darktable’s. Same thing will be true comparing Lightroom to darktable or anything else.
1 Like
I am really sorry but this person is clearly a troll or has NPD.
Despite several well meaning attempts to get anything resembling empathy or consensus he just continues to sling away…
What are narcissistic traits (characteristics)?
Healthcare providers diagnose NPD when you have at least five of the following characteristics:
- Overinflated sense of self-importance.
- Constant thoughts about being more successful, powerful, smart, loved or attractive than others.
- Feelings of superiority and desire to only associate with high-status people.
- Need for excessive admiration.
- Sense of entitlement.
- Willingness to take advantage of others to achieve goals.
- Lack of understanding and consideration for other people’s feelings and needs.
- Arrogant or snobby behaviors and attitudes.
I am seriously impressed with all the efforts to understand and engage this individual. In the end there is absolutely no excuse to behave that way and only on social media would someone behave this way…
7 Likes