Printing: How much of your work do you print/display? In what media?

Anyone interested in a printing forum here?

Anyway, I do not own or operate my own photo inkjet printer because I do not want to allocate the time and energy for one right now, I don’t relish the idea of spending tons of money on ink cartridges, and I don’t print all that much. Further, I am interested in metal and other non-traditional media, which would not be feasible anyway. Also, I would have to print regularly to keep the print heads from clogging all the time (more of a problem for Epson than Canon?) What would I do with all those prints? I don’t have that much free wall space at home (my office is another story), I don’t intend to sell any at this point (have sold some in the past), and I’m certainly not going to burden relatives and acquaintences with gifts of my photos (they very likely don’t want them).

Nevertheless, I do want get back into printing more of my own work. Years ago, I had several printed by a local printer/framer guy who had a large format Canon. I would bring my drive down there, soft proof, and have a very nice print–later with mat and frame at a very reasonable price. Now I no longer live near him, so I have been investigating various web-based services. I recently made a nice calendar (France pics) made by BayPhoto and am looking at some other print media. I am especially interested in metal prints and various non-traditional media. I have some nice bare walls in my new (ish) office at work that I have not been able to use since March 2020, when my employer insisted we work remotely. I placed some framed prints and stuff on one of my walls, but apparently my other three walls are made of diamonds or something because I broke two nails (and nearly the hammer) trying to hang a calendar. So, I want something lightweight that can be put up with adhesive strips/tabs. Also, I don’t want glass, because I don’t need shards flying around if/when the adhesive dries up and/or fails.

I have had a number of museum/gallery exhibits of my work, but in every case, the museum insisted on printing the images from files I provided. Hence, having a printer would have done me no good in those cases either.

How much of your work do you print and display? What media do you favor? What media work best for what type of photo/subject matter in your opinion? How do you display?

Is it worth it to own a printer? (Yes I know darkroom photography was expensive too!)

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You are surely going to get a very wide gamut (:grin:) of responses to such a question.

Every inkjet printer I have owned (at least 4 or 5) has given me grief. Clogged nozzles, huge waste of money on replacement toner and/or print heads, because so frequently I would use less than half the theoretical yield before such problems.

I have been laser printers only for the last 15 years and have been much happier:

  1. A simple Brother mono network laser that gave good service for nearly 10 years with one overhaul.

  2. A high-duty cycle colour HP that my work was going to put on eBay, that gave fantastic value for money, since I paid only $200 (Australian) for the printer and 5 toner cartridges; just had to buy a replacement drum - I got an imitation rather than the genuine article).

  3. A Samsung colour MFC - very good for faxing and document feeder for scanning; expensive consumables, but my local Cartridge World made good remanufactured ones. Still running after 9 years.

  4. A Brother colour MFC. Still running.

OK, so I don’t (or haven’t) have photo-quality output on any of these. I use printing services, either of the Fujifilm kiosk variety, or online ordering. I don’t do regular prints much, but I do create some canvas prints, or coffee mugs - as gifts. Since most of my family live in a different country, I have also ordered from a service in that country and have the output mailed directly to them.

So … long answer to your short question … for me, buying an inkjet is just not worth it. However if colour calibrated workflow from capture to final print is critically important to you, I imagine you may want to have your own printer.

I’m really considering buying Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-1000. I never was an artist. I only did often boring commercial photography and VR panoramas etc. But over the years I’ve shot quite a few images worthy of a print. I have adited most of them but I never managed to sell it to my clients because they aren’t looking for art. I never shown my work in a gallery. And I don’t have any of it printed. I’ve only done some interactive VR experiences as an art project but that’s very different thing.

Now I have 3, more like 2 problems with this printer:

  • First (and this one is a non issue actually) is that this printer doesn’t support roll paper but I’ve found out that it can actually print roll paper but since it can’t cut it, it will eject the whole roll when it’s done printing. So a solution is to cut the paper to the length of the print before printing. And canon released a firmware to allow printing larger prints so this issue is resolved.

  • Second is that I don’t really know how well it works with third party, no brand inks. I’d like to use it with third party inks and not the Canon ones. I’ve heard that no brand inks are just as good as Canons and that with Canon inks you only pay for “Canon tax”. I’d need someone to verify that for me, someone who has tried it and can say that it’s fine to do.

  • Lastly, my biggest problem is that there is probably no way for this printer to work with Linux. At least not with all of it’s functions being supported and that is a big issue for me.

    I do have a Windows partition but that is only for Lightroom for selected images that require me to do raster masking with a brush.
    As soon as Darktable gets raster drawn masks or vkdt reaches acceptable level of maturity, I’m deleting Windows forever.
    Because of that I’m hesitant to invest in a printer that doesn’t work with Linux and that will most likely force me to have a windows partition.
    Maybe it could be installed trough wine if anyone has any experiences?
    And maybe I could use it in a seamless VM setup. I can’t really use Lightroom like that without having a second GPU and doing passtrough but It might work well for a printing software.

Anyway, to answer your question, yeah, I’m really interested in a printing forum here.

I don’t print, but I’ve heard good things about TurboPrint. Canon imagePROGRAF Pro-1000 Linux Printer Driver | TurboPrint

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Yes, me too, but imagePROGRAF PRO-1000 has an accounting software. You select your file, your paper, size, quality etc and it calculates exactly how much ink and paper are you spending on that print and gives you the exact cost of materials for that print. I find that feature priceless especially if I end up having to use original inks (which I hope I won’t). So I’d probably want to experiment with wine and kvm to get that working on Linux.

Just to put it in a perspective. For imagePROGRAF PRO-1000 Canon sells 11 inks and 1 chroma optimizer in 80.0 ml cartridges at 60 eur per cartridge (price+shipping).

I can get a no brand ink and chroma optimizer for around 40-60 eur per 1L bottle. And that is a lot more appealing to me.

We all know that both Epson and Canon spend ink like crazy to clean nozzles so you need to print every 3 days or you’ll just be wasting ink on keeping your nozzles clean. So whatever I do, I’ll need a lot of ink to own that printer and I sure as hell won’t pay 60eur per 80ml cartridge.

Funnily enough I happened to be looking at this earlier -

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I still don’t know anything after reading that. They are also just speculating.

If I want to speculate, I really think that as with all other products, you are paying money for the brand and in the case of printers you are actually paying off the printer by buying OEM inks. It’s well documented that printers are being sold at a loss by the OEM. Sometimes at a big loss. But they count on you buying ink at incredible prices for the lifetime of the printer.

Anything can be reversed engineered, if you’re a no brand ink manufacturer making millions of $ a year how hard would it be to pay a lab to reverse engineer an ink. Probably not that hard.

If the inks are being sold as being a replacement ink for the OEM ink, it must work. Otherwise no one would buy it and they would not be selling it anymore.

If I want to be paranoid, I can always mix OEM and third party inks. And for the printer producing different results than with OEM ink, I can just profile it with a spectrometer and it’ll be fine.

But, all that said, I’m still weary. I’d want to hear the experiences if the third party pigments are really clogging up the nozzles more and if not, I’d like to test myself if the color fades really quickly or the quality is acceptable.

But I think I wouldn’t mind a print fading slightly after like 30-40 years. I think that shows the age and history of the print. Otherwise if prints didn’t show it’s age, there’d be no difference between an old an a new print. One could just print it from a file whenever and everything would be the same.

The Epson ink (can’t speak for canon) on Epson paper gives you color fastness and testing. All the Epson papers and inks are rated and will give you a specific life span for your print. I.

Colour fastness, etc. is kind of a tricky proposition. You only know once it starts degrading. In the distant past, my dad dabbled in printing. He used the upper end of what we could afford. Now, most of the photos are faded or discoloured. Some aren’t but most are.

A few thoughts since I’d also be interested in exchanging information on prints here, with a focus on “our” applications (darktable, scribus etc).

First of all, amateur photographer here, for the past few years focused on my family; not fancy or short-term rewarding, but for me vastly more important than everything else – just to mention a name, one of my heroes is Sally Mann.

I use Linux and to drive my Canon Pro-100 (dye-ink) I have bought a Turboprint license. It’s accessible from darktable and the way I do prints are mostly 10x15 or 13x18 and occasionally larger (20x30, ~A4) prints. I don’t have to fiddle too much with the default settings to be hones to have a good and faithful color reproduction. I use original canon inks which I buy in multipacks from amazon (all 8 colors).

For throwaway prints, I use the standard canon glossy photopaper 100 sheets 10x15 pack; I also have a collection of various kinds of papers from Red River Paper, which are all fantastic (and not as expensive as Hanhnemule).

My experience is that for quick proofs and prints, having the possibility to print at home at any time and see the results immediately vastly outweighs the lower costs of cheap prints from a photolab. And the quality is very very good anyway, even on the cheapest paper that I have.

And when I need high quality prints, I don’t have the kind of expertise and experience and knowledge to have identified an exceptionally good and reliable professional printer locally.
I probably need to mention that I live in Milan, Italy, where surely there are high level labs and professionals… but having no affiliation to photo clubs or friends sharing the same level of interest in photography, I always have the feeling of bein ripped off when I occasionally seek an “expert” opinion or service.

So when I need to do a high quality print, I feel like I’m not let down by my Canon, and the fun you have by choosing different papers and see what is the effect on the print is invaluable.

About the reason to print, plenty of people have argued about the importance of looking at physical prints, and I will refrain to do so. I want just to mention that I’m very far away from the idea of prints as something to be put under glass; printing even on cheap paper is a way to judge the photos regardless of the little tiny technical details that I obsess with while pixel-peeping in darktable… it’s a good way to put things in perspective, to let go of the noise, the dynamic range, and all the other wonderful things I aim to get “right” when working in darktable but that are ultimately meaningless in terms of emotions and significance of the photo. Printing a stack of photos is also the best way to build a meaningful sequence (I can’t do that in darktable, but I’d gladly accept any suggestion you may have on how to do that).

Anyway, if we were to put on a printing section of the forum, I would like to discuss about how to properly use darktable+Turboprint, how to use Scribus to build photobooks that can be sent out to Blurb for printing etc (I have followed Andrew Milnor’s advice in the past and have had great fun in making photobooks on the cheapest papers offered by Blurb, just to have something physical to hold; I’m now making a similar book in Scribus trying to setup the pdf layout in agreement with Blurb’s requirements but haven’t done the last step yet – sending it to print!).

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I have been printing for a long time with both Canon and Epson printers. The Epsons are by far the most problematic from the standpoint of nozzle clogging; the Canons I have had can be dormant for more than a month with no problems.

Inks. Expensive. The best I have found for my Canon Pro-100 is made by Precision Color Precision Colors Home Page. These inks are so close to Canon’s that I didn’t feel compelled to immediately redo the printer calibration. They are good. Not sure how durable they are over time but I have prints from years back from another Canon printer with these inks that are still as good as they were then.

@KristijanZic, that’s a bit of a rant isn’t it?!

It seemed to me there was quite a bit of useful info in there.

Really? Photosynthesis isn’t too easy.

Issues with patents?

Messy business I think. (Did you notice in the dpreview thread those official-sounding bodies who test light fastness)

That’s very naive!

You didn’t understood what I said. Never did I say it was an easy task for an engineer. I said it would not be that hard for a company making millions from selling third part ink to pay a lab to reverse it. And they would, and it wouldn’t be rocket science to do for them.

What patents? Most third party inks come from China. I’ve just bought a Louis Vuitton bag for my niece from AliExpress for 19$. Give me a break.

Why? Buy some UV lights point them into the image for predetermined period of time and viola, you’re testing. But I’d just put the photo onto the roof of my house or under the sunroof of my car to subject it to some harsher real world conditions. And if OEM ink tests marginally better than the third party. I’d just use the third party ink.

There are so many combinations you can do and test by combining OEM and third party inks too. There must be a reasonable compromise between price and quality. Also it depends on what you’re printing, for which kind of audience and for what price.

You have quoted my words out of context. I’ve explained that if the inks were so faulty, there wouldn’t be a market for them. If there wouldn’t be a market for them then they would be pulled from the market. Why would anybody keep producing pigments that don’t sell? Or why would anybody keep buying pigments that are clogging the nozzles of their printers?
Still, it needs to be tested, but I’m pretty sure in this logic.

@KristijanZic
I do print but by the service.
I want them to use only original inks. I print on expensive papers with original inks so that after 40 or so years my prints will look as they look now. I pay for quality which I believe is worth it.
You can watch Jose Rodriguez youtube channel where you can find a lot of practical information. For instance to lower the cost of ink he buys on ebay inks that are reaching or reached expiration date. It is the only acceptable way of lowering the ink cost.
From what I read on forums (since I do not own dye printer) OEM inks are not worth the trouble with one exception! Piezzography but this is something completely different than lowering the cost of print.

For proofs and quick checks a friend of mine bought something like epson ecotank. Here you can use OEM inks (it’s not dye printer). Or you can even play with Canon Selphy which is fine for 10x15…

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So basically I’m not talking about printing the works of other photographers or offering a printing service.

I’m talking about printing my own works and selling them to the masses. Like something you would buy in IKEA, maybe even printed on canvas with a simple wooden frame with a print wrapped around the frame and stapled (Idk how that’s called in English).
I would price the images accordingly, like 40eur per one 90cm x 60cm image or 106cm x 60cm image.
If I used OEM inks I’d have to price them at 100eur and up. If I was a well known photographer I might even sell them for 2k-7k each but I’m not. I may have a few great images but I don’t have the name for that price and I never will.

Basically I need a print that is going to sell and that means low price and high volume. People will use it to fill the space with it, not really to appreciate it unfortunately. So if it fades over time, you got what you paid for. If they wanted to pay me more, they’d get better quality. I may want to do a few runs of prints with the original OEM pigments and have those prints in storage and offer it at higher price for those who really want it for its artistic value and to keep it forever. But for every day Joe, only the price, the size and the color palette matters. Not even motive matters to them.

They don’t buy printed photos to appreciate them but because they want to fill the empty wall in their room and the photo matches the drapes.

It’s sad, I’d like my art to be appreciated but this is the reality of the situation. Sell cheap, sell a lot, make something. Sell expensive, sell nothing.

I love that channel! :smiley:

I sounds like you need a printing service like one which prints pamphlets for your local pizza restaurant :wink:

Mixing the metaphors: artisan pamphlets for artisan pizzas. :face_with_monocle: :joy_cat:

Stay tuned, I just bought a set of third party inks from STS Inks in Boca Raton FL for my Canon Pro-1000. I’ll follow up with a report when I start the transition. I used STS inks in my large format Canon 8300 and 9100’s for a while for commercial work with no problems, so I think they will work.

I’m on a Linux system now, and to reach the Canon printer, I have a VM wet up running windows10. Via Photoshop I can run the Canon Print Plugin to configure and send images to the printer. I’ve also tested the Canon Studio Print software to send images to the printer, and that works well, but only for jpg and png formats.

I’d suggest the 80/20 rule when it comes to printing. Select a printer that will do 80% of your work, and send the other 20% out.

Hm, maybe. That’s not out of the question. But you get what I mean by most people buy prints to match their drapes and not for the print quality. Are they really going to pay for a premium ink? They’ll have the print for a few years and then change the drapes and throw my prints with them right into the trash no matter how good they are.

And please don’t think that I’m being cheap. The average salary in my country is around 600eur per month and with VAT being 25% nobody can afford to give 100eur for a large stretched canvas print. I’d still want to deliver the best possible quality that I can afford at that selling price. I don’t think that’s defrauding consumers, I don’t plan on not disclosing anything. I don’t think anyone will even ask what printer or paper/canvas let alone which ink I used.

You are a god sent!

When or if I get the printer (most likely I will), I’ll try to do one of those seamless KVM setups or trough wine. It should be very hard but possible.

That would actually be the PRO 2100 that I’m also considering since PRO1000 is just a tad bit too small for the thing a wanna do. And I think is easier to maintain the inks on the 2100 since you can buy clear ink cartridges and just turn off ink monitoring. That way I won’t need to buy new chips every time I need to refill the cartridge.