In the past few months I had a couple of wonderful shooting days just carrying a micro 4/3 camera with a 25mm f/1.7 lens… and nothing else, really. I think that currently, I am happiest with a prime in the 40–50mm range.
But… I would not mind some more light and nice creamy bokeh. While I guess that going to an APS-C sensor with a f/1.4 lens (like eg the Fuji XF 33 f/1.4) would be a step in that direction, I am wondering if I should experiment with full frame.
OTOH, I know myself. The minute I had to lug around a DSLR or a similar form factor, I would start leaving it at home after a while. So I am wondering if there are any small FF ILC camera options you would recommend that
have convenient manual controls,
with acceptable AF (latest-generation fancy tracking not needed),
are not more expensive than $1000, used (w/o lens, the cheaper the better).
Not insisting on IBIS, weather sealing, computational features, etc.
The only reasonably small FF bodies I found are the Sony A7C (i or ii). Leica makes some rangefinder style cameras, but they are too expensive for me. The Panasonic S9 could be a solution, but it has so few controls.
well … you missed the obvious thing … the smaller sensors of M43/APS-C need a smaller mount. and you can light the whole sensor with smaller glass. there are some decent compact FF cameras but you will never get the compact size of the smaller sensors because of the space needed for sensor and mount. so if you want to go FF and compact … say bye bye to fast glass.
p.s.: if you want to go really small on fuji. dont get the f1.x lenses. but take the f2.0 lenses.
here in the UK many manufacturers offer a free loan for 2 days, you might have some similar schemes, most here are run by one gear rental company
you could try the original panasonic s5, they might all be gone now but the last ones were selling very cheaply, or look for a used camera, I have some MFT cameras and decided to get fuji, I’m mostly very happy.
another nice compact full frame is made by sigma (the fp), the older one is 24MP and the newer version is 60mp, it doesn’t have a mechanical shutter, maybe the canon R8 is interesting, I expect there will be some good deals for black friday at the end of november
Thanks, but if I understand the math correctly, f/2.1 on APS-C is approximately f/1.7 on micro 4/3 (the conversion is 2/1.6=1.25), so I would not gain much. I might as well get the PanaLeica 25mm f/1.4 and keep the micro 4/3 bodies for a reasonably compact kit.
The ff Nikon Z5 is cheap new, even cheaper used, and is only a touch bigger than the APS-C Nikon Z50. The 40mm f2 lens is also quite small and economical.
I have spent a lot of time with just my Z50 with this small FF 40mm lens, and it’s great for carrying around. But the 60mm equivalent focal length is a tad long. Using the same lens on a FF that’s basically the same size is an attractive option.
If I could get a ff standard zoom with the range of my aps-c 16-50 (i.e., 24-70ish) that wasn’t two or three times the size, I’d be tempted to move from APS-C to FF myself.
My rule is, only consider a larger sensor once you have maxed out your current one. Fuji has several f/1.2 and even f/1.0 lenses. I find even f/1.4 a bit much most of the time.
But if you want to try a small 35mm body without spending too much money, the old A7 II or Z6 are relatively small and affordable. The FP-L and A7C have already been mentioned, but are often more expensive.
Make sure to consider the lenses available. Fast glass is larger these days and 50mm lenses are large on milc. I wonder if a “small” ff dslr and an older prime won’t get you an overall smaller package? If you’re after smoothness in only some shots the aberration compromise of older glass might work.
I really dislike having volume on the lens and much prefer in in the camera. I don’t know which is the smallest ff dslr though.*
The OG Lumix S5 is available on mpb for £500 and the relatively small (for ff) standard 1.8 primes and kit lens are cheap second hand. There are also occasional three lens deals from Panasonic for the new mkii with PDAF (I saw £1,650 for 50, 85, 20-60, incl. 20% sales tax). Whether that raises concerns about their business, I don’t know.
The Canon 6D is quite small and light, I think, and the plastic fantastic 50mm f/1.8 is small, rated quite well, super cheap, or comes with the body. I see a 6D on eBay with lens for £300. EF glass is generally cheap and plentiful as people move to RF.
EDIT: Looks like the Canon 6D and Nikon DF are basically the same size. Canon has 20MP and PASM ergos, Nikon 16MP and film camera styling and dials, but looks like Nikon is double the price on used market.
I don’t see the problem with that. I think that all big manufacturers now in business (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Ricoh) have the expertise to designany lens conceivable. There is no fairy dust that makes a Leica lens special, it is just a different design choice.
The real challenge is manufacturing lenses within given tolerances and price points.
I tend to agree with you here. Also, now the suggestions are entering DSLR land — I think that all cameras mentioned here are still great and come with excellent lens options, but they are way too bulky for me. I remember owning a few DSLRs, and how I gradually stopped taking them with me.
Before MILCs, the last camera I consistently carried around was a Canon G15. Is that a joke compared to DSLRs? Perhaps. But I captured a lot of photos I liked.
The Panasonic GX9 may be my sweet spot for now. I am hoping that Panasonic will release a similar rangefinder within a few years. But I have to admit that I am eyeing the Fuji line too
Yes, i agree there’s no pixie dust, just people buying pixie dust, which is fine, for them. I guess maybe you could argue they’re buying QC but I don’t honestly think that’s true.
I like the idea of a compact full frame but the price always put me off, even for the ancient Sony RX1, then there’s the Q cameras… I thought maybe if the LUMIX S9 slumped in price at some point, that might be nice with the right lens. But looking at the smaller lenses, I wonder how much advantage there is. I could be wrong, but the just about jacket pocketable FF autofocus primes seem to be about f/2.8. That’s about a 2/3 stop advantage over, say, the quite a bit smaller 15mm f/1.7 m43 lens. Obviously the full frame will give better dynamic range and low light performance. I haven’t really researched it properly, though. Maybe there are better options.
I was on a similar kick about 6 months ago (there’s a thread about it on here somewhere), and I was seriously tempted by the Sony A7C line. It’s actually slightly smaller than my Fuji X-T5, which is pretty amazing considering it’s a 35mm FF body. But… it’s not cheap.
I still hope to try one some day, but I was put off by the increased prices for everything FF. And I started to think that the jump from APS-C to FF was maybe nothing spectacular and I might as well try medium format instead! I wonder if the GFX line will one day be as small as some of today’s smallest FF bodies? There must be a limit, but not sure what that limit will be.
