White balance on version 5.9 and 5.10 on startup.

[Marc_Valade]

I am a hobbyist photographer and really love RawTherapee since a couple of years now.

Over time I found that reaching the right yellow in image that were actually primary about a yellow subject was very difficult and for the most part impossible. I noticed that when I was shooting Sony A7RII. Since you rarely shoot and process images on the spot, you tend to not be aware of this issue.

I have grown more concerned over time with the colors in my images and I am now shooting Fujifilm X-T5. I have found the same problem. So I have made a number of effort to remedy this. It all seem to have failed.

I first attempted to go on Linux and see if it was a matter of Windows or Adobe interference.

I then thought that maybe by purchasing a software that con vert into .dng file I would end up with preserving this file colors when opened in RawTherapee. So I bought DxO PureRaw, which is top of the line to deal with raw images from Fujifilm x-trans sensors. I found I still have the same issue.

I then set all the parameter off in RawTherapee to see if it would show the same colors as other regular softwar image viewers that can read .dng files. I still have the same problem.

Doing this, I noticed that their was no way to open a file without activating the White balance option in RawTherapee. I then attempted to just match the basic color image on the other software by changing the white balance in RawTherapee. What I find is that RawTherapee seems to operate some default exposure corrections, but more importantly, that no choice of white balance option were actually coming close to the color wanted, like the one on the other sofwares.

So following this discovery I resorted to custom adjust red/blue equalizer, temperature and tint. But it proved to be very difficult or next to impossible since three variable need to be put precisely on each levels specifically and that their is blue and yellows in the greens. It also appear to be impossible to make this bias correction automatic when opening other images. It might also need different adjustment on each images anyway.

My purpose is to actually attempt to produce authentic colors from the field, because the color on scene are those for the most part that made me enjoy the scene. Then I intended on using Gimp to modulate the other colors to emphasis that one interesting subject , while still keeping everything natural, but also bringing everything into a specific renowned color palette that lives well with the color in focus.

Because of this initial hardship, I had not achieved better result then by using DxO PureRaw followed by Affinity photo yet. Furthermore, even though RawTherapee is far superior on many aspects in my opinion, Their is no way for me to keep it in my workflow, since it will spoil all of my previous work. And I also can’t use Gimp subsequently unless the file is already a .jpg, .tif or .png mostly finished.

I tought this is probably a big problem enough for you to be made aware of.

[priort (Todd Prior)]

Does it not default to as shot which is in the meta data of your raw file so basically what your image is providing to RT… maybe the camera profile is the issue… What do things look like when you use the DCP from Adobe…the same not to your liking…?? Maybe share an image so that people can comment and see exactly what it is you are not happy with…Are you using the auto-matched tone curve… the various models of that can look quite different so if you are doing so maybe check those out as well. If you are using auto match maybe try to turn that off and use the full settings of the Adobe profile ie the look and base tables and the tone curve provided by that profile… How does it look with that …

[Lawrence37]

Welcome to the forum @Marc_Valade!

If I understand correctly, you are finding it hard to get the yellows that you want?

@Marc_Valade

What I find is that RawTherapee seems to operate some default exposure corrections

If you turn everything off (or just apply the Neutral profile), there is no exposure correction. Exposure adjustment doesn’t affect colors anyway. Note that many image viewers only show the camera/software-generated embedded preview of the dng, and many raw image editors apply hidden processing. RawTherapee is very transparent about what it does to your images.

@Marc_Valade

So following this discovery I resorted to custom adjust red/blue equalizer, temperature and tint. But it proved to be very difficult or next to impossible since three variable need to be put precisely on each levels specifically

White balance is a 2-dimensional adjustment, meaning you only need two variables. The temperature and tint are sufficient. The red/blue equalizer is there as a convenient alternative in case of a red or blue color cast, such as with underwater photography.

I think white balance is the wrong tool to adjust colors. It is meant to make a photograph look like it was taken under a different colored light source. Due to color constancy, your yellows can still look “wrong” even if you used the white balance tool to exactly match the yellows to the results from other software. What you need is a more targeted adjustment which can be done with L*a*b* Adjustments, HSV Equalizer, Color Toning, Local Adjustments, etc.

As Todd wrote, an example image would be nice for us to understand the exact problem. Perhaps it is just a color accuracy problem which can be improved with a good DCP (RawTherapee does not have a DCP for either of your cameras, but it does have basic color matrices for them). Or perhaps the yellows are out of gamut and what you are seeing is a result of how different software choose to handle out of gamut colors.

[Marc_Valade]

Still into Preferences, but under Image Processing, in the Camera profiles directory I have (None) selected. As for all the Directories in this section… I need help to figure out where those directories are I suppose.

[Marc_Valade]

[Marc_Valade]

On the left image with RawTherapee without corrections and same image in Affinity photo on opening for both.

[priort (Todd Prior)]

So cross comparing is fine but you need to be sure that RT and Affinity are using the same display profile first off. THen Affinity does add a tone curve and I think might add exposure bias, noise reductions and lens profiles unless you modify those which you might have. As for RT its not clear if you are using any tone curve… if you are the models used can greatly impact what you see…by that I mean these…

My suggestion was to try to be sure to disable that RT tone curve and try the DCP file from Adobe just to see how it matches up with the default RT one…

Cycle through using the look and or tone curve and see what it looks like

EDIT …My screenshot is D7200 as I just happen to open that as an example I know that yours is I think a sony… you can also download DCP files for the camera profiles like landscape vivid etc… and as @Lawrence37 say if you provide an image and side car people can make further comments … its okay to upload your raw file directly for that purpose…

[Lawrence37]

It looks like the image has the wrong black level applied. It has a very characteristic color cast that affects the shadows most. Also see the clipped red channel in the histogram.

Are you able to provide a raw file and the pp3? The ARW looks exactly the same as the dng when opened with the default settings, right?

[Marc_Valade]

I have not manage to match the looks so far. I am gearing up to load the raw and dng file…

[Marc_Valade]

The raw file seem to large it stop loading after 8%. Here comes the pp3.

[Marc_Valade]

20210227-DSC03711-ARW.dng.pp3 (14.9 KB)

[Marc_Valade]

DSC03711.ARW (81.9 MB)

[Marc_Valade]

Sorry it is the ,dng file that won’t load.

[priort (Todd Prior)]

@Marc_Valade

A7RII

So it seems you are using the auto curve for your image on opening… it defaults to filmic and in this image its not a huge difference between modes but there are some…

Adobe profile and tone curve

Automatched models with RT camera profile…name indicated model used

EDIT …when gamut is more of an issue you can see substantial differences…

Adobe standard profile

RT defaults

so a big difference in yellows and reds…RT with filmic gives a warmer rose and yellows maybe not even in gamut but weighted standard

or luminance is cooler and more like the adobe hues

[Lawrence37]

The ARW doesn’t show the same color cast as in your screenshot. I managed to get nearly identical results to Affinity Photo. Starting with the neutral profile, I adjusted the exposure and contrast using +1.00 exposure compensation and the tone equalizer. Because Affinity also applies a saturation boost by default, I bumped up the L*a*b* chromaticity to +30

PP3: DSC03711.ARW.pp3 (14.1 KB)

The yellows (or browns) are exactly the same as Affinity. Blues are more saturated, but you can adjust to taste.

[priort (Todd Prior)]

@Lawrence37

The ARW doesn’t show the same color cast as in your screenshot.

This was part of the reason I asked about the display profile. I wonder if it is correctly set in RT… That green cast on the trees looks extreme in the screen shot…

[Marc_Valade]

2024-05-12 07-18-41.mkv (33.7 MB)
Sorry for not responding faster, I was on quarantine for 24hrs due to over use of new re-crew comments! This is why I made a video that I hope shows what might be my problem(s).

[Lawrence37]

Oh, I didn’t realize you were talking about two distinct problems.

You can use a file sharing service such as filebin.net to upload the dng then post the link here.

For adjusting the yellows, you can try the various Adobe DCPs as mentioned by Todd. Instructions to obtain the DCPs are here: How to get LCP and DCP profiles - RawPedia. You can also fine-tune the hue with the various tools I mentioned in my first comment. Here’s an example with the L*a*b* Adjustments HH curve:

Since you want to apply the same adjustments to the yellows in all your images, you can automate it by setting your default processing profile or adding a dynamic profile rule.

[Marc_Valade]

I was not aware myself that their was 2 problems until this morning. I think the Adobe LCP and DCP is what will solve my issues. Thanks for the cue concerning filebin.net. I already make my process mostly automatic which RT is very powerful at. Yet I consider that my color issues have for cause variation from scenarios to scenarios along being caused by the Adobe files missing or such. I think so considering my incapacity to reach a reasonable match at times. It is not that I seek perfection, yet I want things to not require constant vigilance. It is also very time consuming. I am doing all this for a charity and its getting pretty expensive and time consuming. I’ll see if the LCP and DCP files will solve the reading in .dng files. I have suspicion since following a previous investigation, I could not find the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 in RT that is default in the other software I own. I wonder if the file is not on the computer but I just ignore how to access it by default in RT.

[Marc_Valade]

So it seems that what solves the .dng and raw files color skew is in my case the need to costum select the sRGB.icc file both in the Color / Color Management field on Linux or on Windows.

on Windows it is found this way: Windows/System32/spool/drivers/color/sRGB Color Space Profile.icm

on Linux: Program Files/usr/share/color/icc/colord/sRGB.icc

I also chose this file in Preferences menu under Color Management / Monitor / Default color profile:

on Linux it is called: RTv2_sRGB
in Windows it is called: sRGB Color Space Profile

It is still unsure if this is absolutely the right color, but considering the bad exposure and the previous rendering, it is much better!

I will keep investigating the link you previously mentioned and see if a better color set can be downloaded. Maybe I’ll find the popular sRGB IEC61966-2.1 that other software uses.